Request: Carrying Body Hud Icon

[Ishtvan 17]

We need a generic icon for when the player is carrying a body. This icon will appear in the inventory slot, so it can be exactly the same format as an inventory item icon. To test it, it goes in the spawnarg "shouldered_icon" on ai_base . def. Right now I'm just using the lockpick icon as a placeholder.

 

It's possible to make an icon for every single AI if we wanted, but that sounds like a lot of work. IMO it would be easier to just do a generic silhouette of the thief carrying a body.

[Springheel 4630]

Weren't we just going to make some kind of generic symbol to tell the player his hands were occupied, to be used while carrying junk objects? The same one could be used while shouldering a body, possibly just with different text. I'd rather not use some hand-drawn picture of the thief--that would look out of place with our other icons for more than one reason.

 

We'd talked about either a picture of a hand or a stylized symbol for carrying objects. I'll try a few things.

[Springheel 4630]

Ok, I've uploaded hand_occupied_right.tga and hand_occupied_left.tga to assets/hud/inventory_icons. See how that works.

[Ishtvan 17]

Thanks for the images. They will work great for carrying junk items. I'm not exactly sure how to apply them for carrying a body. We only have one inventory slot, but what if carrying a body occupies both hands? Is the assumption that the left hand occupied means only the left is occupied and you can do stuff with the right hand, and the right hand occupied means both left and right are occupied?

 

Or was your plan to put one hand icon in the weapon slot and one icon in the inventory slot?

 

These are great for dragging around junk items in the world, but I still think we could benefit from a specific icon for shouldering bodies. It's kind of a different case than dragging junk items, because the body is no longer in the world (it's on your shoulders), and it's slowing you down, etc.

 

It would be nice to look at the HUD and know immediately that I have a body on my shoulders, and I have to hit dequip or drop to get rid of it. Rather than remember that the body shouldering icon is the same as the junk dragging icon, so if I see the junk dragging icon and am not actually dragging anything, and read the word "Body" instead of junk, I have a body. To me that seems a little too complex for interpreting at a quick glance.

 

If you really want to avoid the hand drawn look, would it be possible to create a player silhouette by using the player model but texturing it black temporarily?

[Springheel 4630]

Or was your plan to put one hand icon in the weapon slot and one icon in the inventory slot?

 

Yes. When you pick up a junk object or shoulder a body in TDS, both your weapon and inventory slots are replaced with an X and the word "nothing". I believe T2 did something similar.

 

Since junk objects also essentially occupy both hands (since you can't frob anything else) then having both images seems appropriate.

 

so if I see the junk dragging icon and am not actually dragging anything, and read the word "Body" instead of junk, I have a body.

 

Don't think of it as a "junk dragging" icon, think of it as a "hand occupied" icon. So if you see the "hand occupied" icon and see the word "body", then you know you're carrying a body (the only time I can imagine forgetting would be after a save). It seems pretty straightforward to me, but we can see what others think.

[Ishtvan 17]

Yes. When you pick up a junk object or shoulder a body in TDS, both your weapon and inventory slots are replaced with an X and the word "nothing". I believe T2 did something similar.

 

Since junk objects also essentially occupy both hands (since you can't frob anything else) then having both images seems appropriate.

Okay, that makes sense, I'll just have to figure out how to code it. Guess I'll have to make a fake weapon item as well as a fake inventory item, or figure out how to put stuff on the hud directly.

 

Don't think of it as a "junk dragging" icon, think of it as a "hand occupied" icon. So if you see the "hand occupied" icon and see the word "body", then you know you're carrying a body (the only time I can imagine forgetting would be after a save). It seems pretty straightforward to me, but we can see what others think.

Yeah, I remember now it was done this way in TDS. Personally I prefer the Thief method where you actually see the body shouldered icon, but we can see what others think.

[Tels 278]

Yeah, I remember now it was done this way in TDS. Personally I prefer the Thief method where you actually see the body shouldered icon, but we can see what others think.

 

As I am a visual person, I'd like to see the "body" icon. Having a small crate in your hands is different from having a body over your shoulder, afterall.

[greebo 34]

@Ishtvan: I know the inventory code very well, so you can leave the HUD stuff to me. Not that I want to take your tasks away from you, of course, but I intended to go through the inventory HUD code anyway, as there are quite some glitches when using the group cycle commands and compass, etc.

[Springheel 4630]

The original games just showed nothing in the inventory and weapon slots, with the body carrying picture above the lightgem. We should probably be consistent. Either we show an icon in those slots when the player's hands are occupied, or we don't.

 

As far as an image of the actual Thief...I always thought that drawing of Garrett carrying a body broken an important convention in first-person games--you don't show pictures of the player character from a third person perspective (other than cut-scenes, when the player isn't in control).

[Ishtvan 17]

@Ishtvan: I know the inventory code very well, so you can leave the HUD stuff to me. Not that I want to take your tasks away from you, of course, but I intended to go through the inventory HUD code anyway, as there are quite some glitches when using the group cycle commands and compass, etc.

Okay, that's no problem. For the AI body, I made it an actual inventory item, because that accomplished both putting up the inventory icon and hiding the body in the world. If we also want to put up an icon in the weapon slot, that will take more work, and I wouldn't know how to do that with the HUD, so you can handle that if you want.

 

@Springheel: I tend to agree with Tels that it's nice to have a visual icon to immediately show what you're doing. I would be confused for a moment if I saved while carrying a body and loaded up and just saw hands occupied and had to read the word "body" or "corpse" to know what was going on.

 

Personally I don't have a problem with showing the player from a third person perspective in the icon. It makes up for the fact that I can't see or feel my body. If you can think of a body carrying icon that avoids showing the player though, I would have no complaints.

[Springheel 4630]

So would that icon show up on both the left and right sides? It wouldn't make much sense to show two images of the character.

 

Whatever we choose to do should be consistent. If we're going to show hand icons on both sides when carrying things, then that behavior should be consistent when carrying bodies. Otherwise, we should just clear the weapon slot and only use the inventory one to communicate when things are carried.

 

Frankly, I'm still not entirely sure why we need an icon when carrying junk objects, since the object is right there on your screen.

[Ishtvan 17]

Otherwise, we should just clear the weapon slot and only use the inventory one to communicate when things are carried.

I actually thought that's what we were going to do before seeing your left and right hand icons. This is the first I've heard of putting an icon up on the weapon side. Sorry if I missed something.

 

Frankly, I'm still not entirely sure why we need an icon when carrying junk objects, since the object is right there on your screen.

It can be difficult to tell when you've picked things up sometimes, particularly when they bump against something and get stuck right after picking them up. Covering up the inventory also makes it clear that you can't use the inventory while you're dragging things. I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but people seemed to like the idea earlier.

[Ishtvan 17]

I just realised, dragging a body is also technically manipulating an object in the world, so if the hand icon comes up for dragging a crate around, it will also come up for dragging (not shouldering) a body. Then it seems like we definitely need a different icon for shouldering a body, otherwise there would be no indicator change from dragging a body to shouldering a body (I realise that if you think of it strictly as a hand occupied icon, there wouldn't need to be a change, beause it would go from hand occupied by body in world to hand occupied by body on shoulders, but it seems like there should be some indicator change between these two different cases).

[Springheel 4630]

Let's do away with the left hand icon then. I'm still not sure what would look good as a carrying body icon. I'll have to give it some thought.

[Ishtvan 17]

Okay, no problem. I put in the right hand occupied icon when shouldering bodies for now (but have not yet implemented that to go up whenever something is grabbed. Might need Greebo's help with the hud functions for that as well).