New Idle Animation

[Springheel]

Here are screenshots. The top is how the hands look on the proguard. The bottom are the way the hands look with the uvmap properly flipped.

[Springheel]

I don't mean to be nit-picky, but I notice that the arms in this new idle animation stick very close to the AI's sides. The proguard is relatively thin, so it isn't a big problem there, but the hands do clip into the sides of AI that are a bit thicker (see below).

 

Would it be possible to move the hands out a bit from the sides, or alternately create a slightly different idle animation that could be used for thicker AI?

[Domarius]

I'll just move the hands out tonight, should be fine.

[Domarius]

I updated the idle anim with the hands a bit further out (love the graph editor - just dragged the X rotation key frames for the shoulder upwards all together, no manual posing necessary)

 

Proguard still looks okay with them out a bit, so I tested it on the 2 AI that I could find that use the proguard anims. Looks wierd on the nobleman - his arms look too far out, not sure why they are further out than the proguard itself. And the thug... well he's just fat. Fat people really need their own animations, they move very differently. So till then we'll have to live with a bit of clipping on him.

[Noisycricket]

Is that how the AI stand in the current idle animation? Having jobs that required me to stand for a good 10 years, 8 hours a day, i can tell ya you don't use your muscles when you don't have to. You rest straight up, balanced on your joints, knees straight. When your joints get sore, you shift the weight onto different angle of the joint, still balanced, still straight. Unmoving too, but I agree, the subtle moving adds to the game. Anyway, thats realism for you...

 

If you like, since i know time is a factor, i don't mind creating a standing idle animation that comes from my own experience walking this earth these 33 years and then at least we'd have two to choose from? I was going to anyway down the road and i've got tons of time to spend on it at the moment.

[squill]

I updated the idle anim with the hands a bit further out (love the graph editor - just dragged the X rotation key frames for the shoulder upwards all together, no manual posing necessary)

 

once you update that pose, remember other animations are starting from that pose that need to be updated too. We might also need a list on the animation sheet to keep track of links between animations.

 

Is that how the AI stand in the current idle animation? Having jobs that required me to stand for a good 10 years, 8 hours a day, i can tell ya you don't use your muscles when you don't have to. You rest straight up, balanced on your joints, knees straight. When your joints get sore, you shift the weight onto different angle of the joint, still balanced, still straight. Unmoving too, but I agree, the subtle moving adds to the game. Anyway, thats realism for you...

 

If you like, since i know time is a factor, i don't mind creating a standing idle animation that comes from my own experience walking this earth these 33 years and then at least we'd have two to choose from? I was going to anyway down the road and i've got tons of time to spend on it at the moment.

 

The generic idle randomly changes between different idle animations so won't see the idle anim all the time. For a game it's not really interresting to see someone just standing straight with little to no movement. That's why you want to add some sway movements and play other idles in between. A longer idle animation could be made but like i said other animations also use the starting pose.

[Noisycricket]

I like the movements, its just the pose that my brain is telling me is off. I tried standing like that in the mirror, with my knees bent out and feet out and my back straight up. Looked a little strange, got a good chuckle at myself though. Speaking of that pose, im going to need that soon if its finalized. Im not 100% sure Sparhawk gives a damn that my password doesn't work.

[greebo]

Please send him another PM, I'm sure he's just busy with other stuff.

 

In the meantime, which file are you talking about? The idle.ma? I can send you that one if you give me an E-Mail address.

[Noisycricket]

Thanks, email address is tory40@comcast.net.

[squill]

I like the movements, its just the pose that my brain is telling me is off. I tried standing like that in the mirror, with my knees bent out and feet out and my back straight up. Looked a little strange, got a good chuckle at myself though. Speaking of that pose, im going to need that soon if its finalized. Im not 100% sure Sparhawk gives a damn that my password doesn't work.

 

on a second though i looked at it again and i agree it looks a bit off. The knees are too much bended and his back could be put to the front to make him inbalance. I also think the new posed arms doesn't make him look relaxed. If we want to avoid the clipping on certain models it's better to create a seperate idle anim for those type of characters.

 

a longer idle with some looking around type of action would make him less stiff then he looks now, but that's for later.

[greebo]

I do agree that the current idle has a bit too much forward-backward sway or "hunch" movement in it. Maybe that can be reduced a bit, so that he stands more up right "on duty"?

 

I guess the problem is that all the other idle anims are based off that one, so any changes affect the other anims as well.

[Noisycricket]

on a second though i looked at it again and i agree it looks a bit off. The knees are too much bended and his back could be put to the front to make him inbalance. I also think the new posed arms doesn't make him look relaxed. If we want to avoid the clipping on certain models it's better to create a seperate idle anim for those type of characters.

 

a longer idle with some looking around type of action would make him less stiff then he looks now, but that's for later.

 

I just saw the idle.ma for the first time.

 

LESS stiff? Thats more movement than an MMO or Street Fighter character! I think they have planned movement for the head directly in the code.

 

Im not sure people are going to like that much movement... My personal preference is barely any movement, as I know my brain will interpret that as real, but my opinion is irrelevant. I would guess however that the majority of the Thief community are PC players, not quite as used to console character movement. I could certainly be wrong though, i've been wrong before (ask an angry Sparhawk! )

[Springheel]

For what it's worth, I thought Squill's idle animation on the old skeleton was nearly perfect.

 

I think the most noticeable difference is that the movement in the new idle seems to be compressed into a smaller number of frames. If it were stretched out more, so the motion was more gradual, I don't think the amount of movement would be a problem. If you think back to the old T2 mocap, they swayed back and forth too; it was just slower paced.

[Noisycricket]

on a second though i looked at it again and i agree it looks a bit off. The knees are too much bended and his back could be put to the front to make him inbalance. I also think the new posed arms doesn't make him look relaxed. If we want to avoid the clipping on certain models it's better to create a seperate idle anim for those type of characters.

 

a longer idle with some looking around type of action would make him less stiff then he looks now, but that's for later.

 

How long do you think it will be before you finish your revisions, so i can plan my next animations. I can't do much that i won't have to go back and fix currently. Actually I can do a few things for awhile, nevermind.

 

For what it's worth, I thought Squill's idle animation on the old skeleton was nearly perfect.

Is that the one from St. Lucia? If so, I really liked that one too.

[squill]

How long do you think it will be before you finish your revisions, so i can plan my next animations. I can't do much that i won't have to go back and fix currently. Actually I can do a few things for awhile, nevermind.

 

Is that the one from St. Lucia? If so, I really liked that one too.

 

I tweaked the pose by lifting the hips some more and placed him more in a balanced position. Also increased the length of the animation to 3,5 seconds. I saved a separate version for the wider posed arms -> idle_armsWide.

 

the separate idle_pose can be found in the clips folder. Noisycricket, do you already have access to SVN?

[Noisycricket]

yeah

[greebo]

@squill: I guess I need to update the idle_talk, idle_torch, etc. anims now? Is there a fast way of doing that without re-animating everything?

[squill]

@squill: I guess I need to update the idle_talk, idle_torch, etc. anims now? Is there a fast way of doing that without re-animating everything?

 

you can update the idle pose using the method i explained here:

 

Open the visor -> go to Unused Poses tab -> RMB Import Combat_pose -> activate character set

 

Before you continue i noticed the scene still had some anim clips in the visor. If you transfer an animation to a new rig version check if the visor/trax editor is empty once you save. Otherwise your getting the things you mentioned above.

 

open trax editor -> drag(MMB) the combat pose from the visor to the trax editor -> delete the pose in the visor and trax editor -> now the pose is added to the character poses tab in the visor. If you go to frame 0-> RMB click -> apply pose in the visor. This adds the pose and you can key the whole pose.

 

If you used the idle anim as a base like idle torch, i think it's best to copy the keys from the arm holding the torch and paste them on the updated idle anim. Am i correct you haven't yet uploaded all new anims to the model_src folder?

[greebo]

you can update the idle pose using the method i explained here:

Ok, I'll try to do that, I'll post back here if I run into trouble.

 

If you used the idle anim as a base like idle torch, i think it's best to copy the keys from the arm holding the torch and paste them on the updated idle anim. Am i correct you haven't yet uploaded all new anims to the model_src folder?

No, most of mine are already in model_src, but the idle_talk ones are missing. Idle_torch and search_torch should be there, also idle_armwipe.

[Noisycricket]

I tweaked the pose by lifting the hips some more and placed him more in a balanced position. Also increased the length of the animation to 3,5 seconds. I saved a separate version for the wider posed arms -> idle_armsWide.

 

the separate idle_pose can be found in the clips folder. Noisycricket, do you already have access to SVN?

 

I can't seem to find a "clips" folder, do you mean the af_pose in the proguard_02 folder?

[greebo]

There is a clips folder in the proguard/ folder in the model_src repository, maybe you're looking in the darkmod one?

 

Did you check out the model_src repository? It's this SVN URL:

 

https://darkmod.homelinux.com/svn/model_src/

[Noisycricket]

Oh, i see, your right, i was looking in the darkmod folder.

 

EDIT:

 

Is the final idle anim the idle.ma file? (there is an idle.mb file but the animation has severe twitches in it) I figured i might as well use that to incorporate a small lingering effect of the idle momentums.

[greebo]

The idle.mb file is outdated, the idle.ma one is the one you need.

[Noisycricket]

Ok...here we go...! Finally, i should have some finished work soon.

[Springheel]

Hmm, it's kind of a shame that the proguard is the base for all these animations, because he is a VERY slender character compared to most of our AI (unrealistically so, I think, considering he is wearing chainmail). When I look at these animations on other characters who are a bit wider, like the thug, there is still a bit of clipping--the right thumb still clips into the hips during the idle animation. Clipping is also very noticeable on the sneeze animation, since the chest on other characters is so much wider than the proguard. Not sure what can be done about that, other than keeping the arms/hands a little further away from the torso than they look like they should have to.