Jump to content


Photo

Tiling part of texture creation


  • Please log in to reply
53 replies to this topic

#1 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

I've started to quite enjoy messing around turning pics into tiles, and from browsing the forums I'm wondering if I could help with textures (the 'turning them into tiles' part, at least).

No idea whether what I do would be up to TDM standards, so I've attached some samples for you to check out. If you think they show enough promise for me to be useful, let me know. Just to be clear, I'm not submitting these as potential textures, just as examples of my ability (or otherwise :)) to tile.

Attached File  brickwall.jpg   115.64KB   2 downloads
Attached File  Grunge.jpg   90.52KB   1 downloads
Attached File  scratchygold.jpg   108.36KB   0 downloads
Attached File  scratchywood.jpg   103.06KB   0 downloads

Source image for brick wall: http://ipadwallpaper...1-wallpaper.jpg
Sources for other textures are from http://shadowhousecr...ns.blogspot.com
  • SiyahParsomen likes this

#2 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

I think they look pretty good, always to have nice textures to choose from.

The brick though looks a bit like it's posterized with the black outlines.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#3 RPGista

RPGista

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

Those look pretty cool if you ask me, though one could argue that creating surfaces that have very clear marks (like the last one) is going to make it easy to recognize them as a tile when repeated - very complex textures (with top and botton, or a certain mark in the middle like a patch of missing mortar (with exposed bricks)) are welcomed (by me anyway) when they are vey big and can be used to cover an entire wall - but they do need to be made based off an existing "bland" texture, so you can tile the specific one inside a composition of others.

As far as the team, I'll leave it to them, but if you take me, I've come up with a couple of simple models (a bench and a window grate), untextured, and I intend on simply releasing/contributing them to the general forum as is, so anyone can pick them up, and either finish it off and release it again to the community, or use in his own mission - this would share the work load, you get something that already has a base for you to complete, and I dont see why you couldnt do the same (just keep releasing them and someone will surely pick it up and use it on a map, or maybe give it the bumpmaps and whatnot, etc).

Edited by RPGista, 10 March 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#4 pusianka

pusianka

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 412 posts

Posted 10 March 2012 - 05:39 PM

Hah funny it's exactly what I'm doing xD

#5 Bikerdude

Bikerdude

    FM Manager, Campaign Dev

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12529 posts

Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

nice looking textures there mista..

#6 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:56 PM

Thanks for the encouraging comments guys. A few more comments and questions: -

1. I know the 'grungey' textures lose their grungey quality when they repeat nicely and neatly over a large area :) , but might they be useful for texturing smaller objects like bowls/trays/pots/whatever? If so, I can provide 1024 x 1024 tga files if anyone's interested. The guy who created the source textures states that if they get used and changed in the process (which they have been), he doesn't mind whether he gets any credit or not, so copyright shouldn't be an issue. Let me know.

2. I've read a couple of posts from people saying they have photos they'd like to try to use as textures but they don't have the time to work on them. I'm happy to have a go at tiling them if it could help.

Finally (and maybe most importantly): -

3. I suspect there's more work involved in making textures that look good in 3D-modelling than there is in making textures that look cool on my desktop. I'm happy to keep posting up samples of what I'm doing - if someone can see that I'm missing/messing up something important, let me know. (If you pm me with a message like "Your saturizers need more pixelflexing in the z-quanta dobly range", that should hopefully be enough to help me find a relevant tutorial via Google.)

And this is even before the bump (normal?) mapping process, which I am completely clueless about.

Thanks again for the encouragement!

#7 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:05 PM

very complex textures (with top and botton, or a certain mark in the middle like a patch of missing mortar (with exposed bricks)) are welcomed (by me anyway) when they are vey big and can be used to cover an entire wall -

How big would that need to be (in pixels)?

I dont see why you couldnt do the same (just keep releasing them and someone will surely pick it up and use it on a map, or maybe give it the bumpmaps and whatnot, etc).

http://simplen00b.minus.com/ I've started uploading medium-res 1024 x 1024 jpegs which I can do tgas for if anyone wants them. Like I say, just started working on tiling again for the first time in years so not many up yet, but I'll keep on adding when I get the chance to make them. :smile:

#8 STiFU

STiFU

    Uber member

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2806 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:28 PM

Making textures tileable is a process of < 10 mins unless the presented structures are more complex than usual1. What is really time consuming is creating proper normals. Since you seem to have fun making textures tileable, why not read up a little on proper normalmap creation and submit finished textures? There are lots of tutorials on the wiki. :)

1An example for complex structures would be this texture. This one was really a pain in the ass to make tileable!!
Attached File  Bones0033_2_L.jpg   342.55KB   3 downloads

#9 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:07 PM

Making textures tileable is a process of < 10 mins unless the presented structures are more complex than usual1.

That's the thing – I like trying to make more organic textures (I just like making things difficult for myself :)), plus there seem to be plenty of the straightforward regular textures in TDM already. But if there are others needed I'm happy to have a go at making them.

why not read up a little on proper normalmap creation and submit finished textures? There are lots of tutorials on the wiki. :)

I think I am going to have to go in that direction but I'm still at the stage where I open Blender or Dark Radiant and my brain just panics. I am utterly clueless about the more advanced stuff.

An example for complex structures would be this texture. This one was really a pain in the ass to make tileable!!

I can EASILY imagine! :D


#10 RPGista

RPGista

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:09 PM

Hmmm... There are some textures that dont really need bumps pretty much at all? and that we need - more plaster (I think I saw a couple of good ones already at your site), we basicly only have white ones, some are very "sandy", we could use gray, brownish (earthy), more variety of decayed, and painted ones (which could be colors alone or wall paintings):

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

These are just suggestions by the way. Really liked what you have so far! Theres a discussion on texturing here too, if you want to take a look, there are some suggestions also, if you are looking for inspiration. http://forums.thedar.../page__st__2675

Edited by RPGista, 13 March 2012 - 06:10 PM.


#11 RPGista

RPGista

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:14 PM

I think I am going to have to go in that direction but I'm still at the stage where I open Blender or Dark Radiant and my brain just panics. I am utterly clueless about the more advanced stuff.


Heh, we've all been there, just go for what you are confortable with, its important to have fun in order to learn anything. Not to be dismissive but Blender is pretty hard (its fascinating though, amazing achievement), so you really want to take your time with that one (DR is pretty easy in comparison - Fidcal's A to Z tutorial was the way to go for me).

#12 Melan

Melan

    Christmas Contest Winner

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3301 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:26 AM

Hmmm... There are some textures that dont really need bumps pretty much at all? and that we need - more plaster (I think I saw a couple of good ones already at your site), we basicly only have white ones, some are very "sandy", we could use gray, brownish (earthy), more variety of decayed, and painted ones (which could be colors alone or wall paintings):

I have a set of three coloured plaster textures (red, green and blue) I have been meaning to contribute since forever -- used to be X-tiling, but there is now a regularly tiling version. As featured in this shot:

Posted Image

The other two are identical but in a different colour. I'll try to submit it when I have a bit of time. Actually, I've got a lot more source images, but barely have the time to edit, let alone do this other stuff. :(
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#13 STiFU

STiFU

    Uber member

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2806 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:08 AM

I think I am going to have to go in that direction but I'm still at the stage where I open Blender or Dark Radiant and my brain just panics.

You won't need any 3d application at all in the process. While there are two tutorials on our wiki explaining a way to create decent normalmaps using a 3d app, there are other way to achieve the same thing and in my oppinion they are much easier, unless you're maybe super comfortable with your modeling app. Ok, at one point, you will want to test the textures you created ingame, but the required DR-knowledge is really so basic, that we can just tell you how it works once you're ready.

If you start from the Texture Creation - Basic Tutorial and read every linked article except the "Wall Texture Tutorial" and "Creating Textures with Normals out of Models", you have all the knowledge you need to create perfect materials. ;) No pressure here, but since you like making things difficult for yourself, you might as well learn the whole process and be a real asset to the community. :)

#14 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 09:40 AM

Yeah, we need more stuff like above too (Melan's shot- very T1). More walls that aren't fancy wall paper (though I've been wanting to make a green/black/gold stripe paper that looks like above but more ritzy for mansions) but not plain plaster either.

The metals are good. Maybe not for large panels, but a lot of times metal is just used for trims, bars, etc. that won't show off the obvious 'hot spots'. And even on a long trim you can set it at a 3 degree angle and you'll never see those spots repeat.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#15 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

@Melan:
That screenshot looks great - love the dark textures.

Actually, I've got a lot more source images

If you have the time to upload a couple and send me a link, I'm happy to have a look at them.

@STIFU
I was wondering if I needed Blender – nice to know I don't. I looked at the texture tutorial (it was the comment about removing seams being "usually the hardest, most time consuming step" that prompted me to offer help) but my brain still seizes up with the diffusemap/normalmap terminology.
Testing my textures is the next step, but I'm likely to have loads of noob questions. I'll fire up DR later tonight if I get the chance and report back with nooby-q's/screams of pain/etc etc.

@Baddcogg
Grateful for the overall encouragement. :)

#16 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:03 PM

there is a thread around here somewhere where someone describes how to make a normal from a photo source. it's basically layering and multiplying different layers of blurred diffuse. basically, lol.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#17 Melan

Melan

    Christmas Contest Winner

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3301 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:46 PM

That's too complicated. :) Just install and run NJob, monkey around with the setting until it's good, and let it do the work. There are instances when NJob isn't the perfect solution, but those instances are maybe 10% of your usual texturing work. The actual job is writing material files - lots of copy-pasting, mostly - and testing. And tiling a non-tiling image, of course.
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#18 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:03 PM

And sometimes just desaturating and doing some greyscale touch up (say something is really dark but shouldn't be a hole) can make a decent normal map. (converting to normal, not using as a height map)
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#19 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:47 PM

OK, first nooby help request re material files.

1. Texture creation wiki says:
Create a material for the texture (see Basic Material File). In the materials folder, locate the material file where you texture fits in best.

2. Basic Material File wiki says:
All material files should be located in the darkmod/materials folder and have the extension .mtr.


I'm probably missing something obvious, but I can't find the materials folder - in fact, I can't find anything labelled 'materials' or with an .mtr suffix anywhere in my Doom 3 folder. Do I need to create one? If so, how do I 'locate the material file where you texture fits in best'? What am I missing? :huh:

#20 RPGista

RPGista

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:22 PM

@ melan - that painted wall is indeed really nice, there seems to be an ondulation to the plaster beneath it that works quite well, and i like the dry, matte feel of it, will be looking foward to those.

#21 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:28 PM

@simple,

all the folders are in PK4's (zip files), but any local folders over ride that. So you can just test by making folders in a path like you see in DR

ie:

darkmod/materials (it just contains .mtr (txt) files that have definitions of shaders. So you can make one called simple.mtr and put your shaders there. Where they are doesn't matter. If accepted for the mod they would be copy/pasted to correct locations.

darkmod/dds/textures/stone/flat...this is where dds files go for diffuse and normal maps (if you search materials in DR you will see our paths, or extract the textures.pk4's)
darkmod/textures/stone/flat ... is where the normals go (they are uncompressed TGA format for now, though that will change probably soon to dds)

in your material file you only need to use (it ignores the dds folder)

darkmod/textures/stone/flat
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#22 STiFU

STiFU

    Uber member

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2806 posts

Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:26 AM

(it was the comment about removing seams being "usually the hardest, most time consuming step" that prompted me to offer help)

That depends on how enthusiastic you are about good normalmaps. Melan seems to like to make his life rather simple ( :P ), whereas Serpentine and I usually handdraw parts of the heightprofile of a surface in order to get the proper depth relations right and to fix bad depthprofile estimations by njob or any other similar tool. After that, typically multiple normalmaps are combined to one. This process is pretty time consuming but the results are spectacular in my opinion. :)

#23 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:06 AM

That depends on how enthusiastic you are about good normalmaps.

I'm just going for understanding them first. Enthusiasm will follow. :)

(I just like making things difficult for myself :))

Those words are going to haunt me. :D
  • STiFU likes this

#24 Nosslak

Nosslak

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 680 posts

Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

I have a set of three coloured plaster textures (red, green and blue) I have been meaning to contribute since forever -- used to be X-tiling, but there is now a regularly tiling version. As featured in this shot:

The other two are identical but in a different colour. I'll try to submit it when I have a bit of time. Actually, I've got a lot more source images, but barely have the time to edit, let alone do this other stuff. :(

Why don't you make the texture a colorme material instead? It would save memory and give more freedom to mappers to choose what color they want.

@STIFU
I was wondering if I needed Blender – nice to know I don't. I looked at the texture tutorial (it was the comment about removing seams being "usually the hardest, most time consuming step" that prompted me to offer help) but my brain still seizes up with the diffusemap/normalmap terminology.
Testing my textures is the next step, but I'm likely to have loads of noob questions. I'll fire up DR later tonight if I get the chance and report back with nooby-q's/screams of pain/etc etc.

You don't have to use Blender or anything but I would recommend that you use a 3D editor to preview the textures before you import them into the mod. If you want I can set up a simple test-scene in Blender for you.

#25 simplen00b

simplen00b

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts

Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:20 PM

You don't have to use Blender or anything but I would recommend that you use a 3D editor to preview the textures before you import them into the mod.

I thought you had to import them into the mod (that means DR, right?) to preview them, but if it's easier to use Blender first, that's cool.

If you want I can set up a simple test-scene in Blender for you.

That would be fantastic. If you include some basic instructions, or a link to a wiki with instructions, that may help (what you call 'simple' may be a fathomless pit of pain and confusion for me. :rolleyes:) Many thanks.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users