Ombrenuit

This all seems like a lot to swallow, but I thank you all for taking the time to explain a bit of it. I can read music to a reasonable degree and I own a diluted version of Finale actually. I've been taking piano for 10 years, but then again, considering how much I should have practiced and how little I actually did; I'm definitly not as good as I should be in the least (one of the reasons that ambition didn't particularly float. I was completely out of my league). I suppose what I was mainly wondering was about synthesizers themselves and how sounds and texture for music were generated. I think my biggest hindrance is simply that although I have the creativity for composing, I'm completely lacking in experience. I've done some rudimentary music theory studies and that sort, but nothing that inspires the ideas. Then again, trying to compose piano music isn't exactly something one should start with. I wanted to fiddle with electronic music because I like the idea of music as textures and interaction; the basic beats are relitively easy to control the the structure comes more naturally to me then say, trying to write a piece that sounds like it came out of the Romantic era. I haven't composed anything since I abandoned my original ambition, and the guilt has been hanging over my head for that while. And yes, my avatar is indeed from Gankutsuou, Schatten. I sent you a PM.

I had a streak for about a year where I was determined to become a composer--of course it fizzled when I realized that surviving college as a composer would be more then I could chew (I couldn't practice 6 hours a day...I couldn't). I've always enjoyed ambience, atmospheric music done electronically along with electronic music these days. I'm listening to the Dark Mod OST right now, and I'm wondering to myself, "How do they do that?" How do you do it? Do you use a program to generate the sounds? Do you use a keyboard? I have a midi keyboard myself, but it isn't really generating the kinds of sounds I'm hearing on this soundtrack--the quality that is. I'm very curious. What is the developmental process for this sort of thing?

I know there are those on TTLG who would gladly host materials for free...

Personally, I don't really see the reason for doing this unless one wants to frustrate the player more. The player has little control over his shadow and making sure it wasn't sticking out into corridors will be unnecessarily difficult and also frustrating for mappers who don't intend to make sections difficult (And the possability that one cannot ghost a section at all when it was made to be that way) due to the fact that the shadow might give the player away.

Why even bother making frobbable torches if there is a lantern? As for dropping the lantern, I could see how someone might, say, drop it down a shaft and be unable to retrieve it. Then again, if they quicksave right before a patrol turns the corner strait into them, that is also an irretrievable mistake. It think we have to put a little more trust in the players to be responsible with their tools.

A magical lantern eh? Hey, I have a good idea. How about one of the Dark Mod missions having a either a side or main objective of stealing it from somewhere? A Gypsy (Pagan) magic lantern? Something along those lines? Maybe even writing some story about it to make it mystical. Like a ghost story ;-) Also, the lantern as a droppable item was mostly in my mind for distraction purposes.

I hear that the radiation suit is pretty versitile too, made of some real quality fabric that can minimize abrasions as well as allow for some flexability. With modifications, we could have had a button for expandable flippers. Garrett woulda been a thieving machine!

Well it's one of those things...I think we could live without it without consequence, and thats how priorities go .

I agree, the lantern is a great idea, especially if it was a hooded one, possibly with animal skins? It would make the entire appratus glow orange in your hands and produce a spooky effect indeed. This is probably one of the best ideas I've seen yet, and I agree, it should be droppable, but also pick-up-able. But should guards react to seeing it on the ground? I don't know...something inside me says it would be too irritating for me to want to have to deal with. But I can see some seriously creepy underground missions where this will come into play significantly.

By the way, is there a splashing effect? If guards were walking in shallow water would they splash at all?

Hmm...that would enter an entirely knew gameplay mechanic, the prying off grates and the like . Perhaps one could have a crowbar as a tool and use it instead to pry and the like--chests, doors, grates, windows. A thought. But also, like every gameplay tool, the sword and every other weapon has an ascribed purpose. That purpose has never been to pry open containers, it's been for defense (which is why Thief 3 got it all wrong. While the best defense is an offense, if thats the road you wish to take rather then simply blocking, the dagger was pathetic. You couldn't use it to defend yourself, you could only use it to simply kill--or rather, when you did use it to be killed--instead of course, if you wanted to substitute a backstab for a blackjack...and why?). A thief cannot really swing a sword, much less defend himself underwater particularly well with it. Also, I believe that the purpose of constricting the player in the water was to make him vulnerable where guards cannot particularly go. If Garrett jumped down into a canal with a guard chasing him, is the guard just going to stand there and wait for Garrett to pick him off with an arrow set? I believe the designers anticipated this and avoided it entirely with this restriction. Also they made it a challenge for Garrett. Yes, one could seek refuge into the depths but then again, the thief might be picked off by archers where he himself cannot return the favor.

A simple solution. If one is swimming, they can't use said weapons . If the water is shallow, they are standing, and as I can't imagine the difficulty of keeping one's self afloat and firing an arrow I would have to say that it's impossible (drawing the bow back in the water would make it's effect fairly useless as well).

Heh, it reminds me of sneaking into the house a few times. Avoiding the middles of the rooms (where they are well tread and creak more)--it takes rhythmn to get up the stairs silently and equally distributing weight on each foot --and opening the door to my room slowly enough to not make a creak. Then staring into the dark having to feel for the bed. It takes upwards of one minute or more I suppose before I can finally see as I normally would. Of course, it would get in the player's way if this effect lasted too long, but an effect lasting no more then say 10 seconds would certainly add to the mood. *Edit* But then again, I'm using an average video card (nvidia 5200 that I got specifically for Thief 3). I don't necessarily want to have something killing my computer . But heh, I'm going off to college soon so I suppose some extra expense doesn't much matter.

Are you referring to the flash bomb effect? As far as I know, the player controlled his gamma throughout those three games. Although I do agree in this case (I'm beginning to have a grasp at what is being implied) after being in the dark for a small period of time, I think it would be interesting to have the player's gamma increased as his eyes take in more light. Although this would take balance to do appropriately, it would make for an interesting circumstance. Suppose you were gazing into a hole in the floor, with ominous noise coming from it (for example, the bonehoard entrance). It would be black as pitch, and even after jumping in, you would have moment of confusion where you could not see until your eyes finally adjusted. And when walking into a brightly lit area from a dark one perhaps there could be raised gamma for a few instants where it is hard to see over the brightness before your pupils lessen?

I definitly agree that many times, the player is left in the dark with no way to see other than hitting esc on Garrett's mechanical eye and adjusting the gamma . However, I think the biggest thing the team needs to work on is the glossy finish and the gameplay mechanics. Little environmental effects (and I'm sure Doom has them abound) are what create the atmosphere, but also the sounds, textures, lighting, etc. Something as simple as seeing the wet sheene on rock, looking up to see a midnight sky, see drips of water ripples in the puddle at your feet, the mud beneath, and the blue torch lying ahead are all things that would seriously set a romantic mood of thieving . Personally, it's more about the decor, the objects, the scenery etc. that are what I can't wait for, and what I want the team to focus on. The desk screenshot from this past month is probably the most mood setting of the pieces so far, simply for what it implies. Games are all about illusion and the implication of fantasy is everything. So I'm far more concerned with the total look of everything than anything else currently . By the way, glad to have you at the Dark Mod community.

I think the problem with all these suggestions is this desire to make the game as realistic as possible, but in most cases, that realism either adds nothing to the gameplay and in others, can somewhat hinder the gameplay completely. In this case, all I can see is that it would add unnecessary complication to the mechanics, slowdown on the part of the computer (to always be taking screenshots), and an unnecessary mouthful for the programmers involved. Sometimes these sort of effects can help add to the atmosphere however (which is markedly different from realism); in counterstrike source for instance, when running into an outdoors environment from an indoors one, there is a slight blur and gamma effect for a few seconds that accounts for the dilation of pupils. Mostly though, a lot of these suggestions are "nice"...well kind of. I think many though would be simply tiresome after the initial novelty effect. As for the "guards being able to see you from a dark corner easier" idea...how frustrated do you really want to make the player? He isn't going to be processing all this information and it will just make it more difficult for him. He will be caught more often and it really isn't part of the player's control to avoid guards standing in shadows. It just adds too much. Just as the silhouette idea. How often will the player be looking around to see if there is light behind him? How often will a mapper take into account all this? It will lead to problems. If a mapper doesn't give the player options, how can it always be on the player's burden? For example, the mapper gives multiple routes into a building of varying degrees of difficulty. He makes the middle floor marble and the outer wood to encourage the player to circle around the room. But when it comes to guards having an advantage in shadows and silhouettes, it might make the player's life unnecessarily hard where the mapper did not intend it or where the mapper did not give the player options. Simply put, that kind of variability I would call bad game design. Game design is based upon setting challenges aside for the player (called game mechanics) and mixing and matching these challenges in harder and harder arrangements as the gameplay progresses. However, setting aside game mechanics that are difficult for the designer to control (like the aforementioned examples) is simply frustrating for all parties. It's also a bitch to program ;-). So is it worth it? You judge.

They should have tags for posts made under the influence.

I have to admit, this is the first screenshot that has truly sucked me into the world the Dark Mod is fleshing out. Now I see that screenshot and I want to look around the room. It is little things like this that make you forget you are playing a game, and those are simply amazing. They look as if I'm looking at a real desk with real manuscripts rather then blank books. The illusion is fantastic.

Happy Holidays

Logical fallacies aside, I believe that silhouetting--though realistic--would only prove to frustrate the player. This is especially because the bright lit light emitting object is behind you; it's unlikely that you would realize that you were revealed when the enemy catches site of you, and it's also unlikely that you could guess why immediately.

Well, they arn't necessarily reproducing thief. Burricks would be taking it too far in my opinion, dancing along the lines of intellectual property. If you really insist on having a creature such as this in the game...I'm sure they will come up with something. As for me, I never saw anything special in them.

Rope arrows are used by shooting them into a wooden structure above you, such as a ceiling, banister, or balcony, and then you can climb the rope attached to the end of the arrow. Fire arrows are essentially arrows that explode into your enemies. They make a lot of noise, and I never use them. If the AI is too easy, maybe you should try the ultimate difficulty mod? I've heard that guards notice open doors, hear from much further away, among other modifications that make. I've never used it myself, but it was suggested to me and evidently makes the game much more challenging.

It isn't how you should play it as it is playing a style that allows you to enjoy it the best. For me, the extra challenge and exhilaration of only using a blackjack when I must use it to progress (when I can't sneak by) and of trying to reload as little as possible makes the game the most enjoyable for me. Killing guards simply makes the game too easy and reduces the challenge too much. I tend to like to play as if I really were Garrett robbing this place or that; just trying to get in and out without a problem, and trying to avoid leaving signs of my presence as much as possible. Just try it sometime, it might make it more fun to play ;-). As for the undead and other non-human creatures, there isn't the same consequences of killing them as say, a guard. Afterall, that guard might have a wife and kids to come home to ; just because I'm a thief doesn't mean I don't have a conscience. Also, the murderers are the one's that are on the Watch's top priority right now; if I can avoid some bloodshed the Watch won't actively pursue me. Also--although it doesn't effect gameplay--if a few guards are missing from their fellow's patrol due to a stroke to the head, someone might get suspicious and raise an alarm. If I'm robbing a site of the undead, frankly, my only goal is to get the loot and get out alive, and I will do all that I can to hold onto my skin. I don't have a problem using the sword on the undead, or other creatures for that matter, but then again, I don't go out of my way to slaughter them; I just don't worry if I'm forced to. If I can use an alternative to sneak past them I will, and if I can't then violence it is.

I agree, the sky can be one of the most immersive parts of a mission if done correctly (some games in recent memory would be Half Life 2 and Resident Evil 4 has some pretty mood setting sky scenes).

I love how the government is claiming responsability for others by not trusting their population to take care of themselves.