Dunedain

Hmm, I thought we were talking about the City and it's environs. In any case, it's not a problem for FM's.

I don't think maps of the City are a problem, as long as, in addition to the known locations of the Hammer Cathedral and large main streets, etc. from the Thief games, there are plenty of smaller side streets and alleyways shown that lead off into other parts of that quarter of the City that are not depicted on the map. It's these many connecting streets, alleys and tunnels that allow for the many locations not currently known from the games, that are yet to be revealed in Thief IV or discussed in a Thief FM, to be added to the City with no problem. There's always room for another inn, or church, or mansion, or warehouse that's needed for a FM. After all, the City is no doubt vast, and we only know a fraction of the locations in it. Some of the most famous places like the huge Cathedral are known, but there are many others which have yet to be revealed. Room enough for all the FM's one may wish to make that take place in the City.

Great work on those enhanced versions of the original artwork! If a team wants to re-create the levels of Thief and Thief 2, interconnect them, and bring in the original cut-scene artwork and voices and everything with higher polygon counts and higher res textures to recreate the games with higher detail graphics (whether in an updated version of the Thief 2 engine or TDM), that would be very cool.

Oops.

Oh yes, I understand if certain fan missions can't be hosted on the official site and so on. It's like Counter-Strike. If fans make a custom multi-player level that has a Coke sign on a billboard in the level, then that level couldn't be hosted on the official Counter-Strike web site as part of, say, a pack of fan levels for CS that Valve endorses for download. But it's a fan-made custom level that's very popular and that anyone can download and play from various places, and no one really cares.

I think Garrett is a major issue, I'm sure many prefer to play as Garrett on another of his many amazing adventures. But it's really not a problem for TDM at all. Yes, the team had to nominally change some names and such to prevent problems with the mod being released, but Thief fans are under no such restrictions. They can easily put any story text they like into their fan missions and specifically identify the thief in the missions as Garrett, and any cathedrals in the missions as Hammerite cathedrals, and so on. This mod if for making Thief fan missions, and so certainly one can make all the missions one wants with Garrett in them, and any other story elements from the Thief games. And, of course, a mission can feature another character, as well. So Thief fans can feel free to make full use of TDM to make super cool actual Thief fan missions with any and all Thief characters in them that they wish to include.

Let's remember that we're all serious Thief fans, that's the main thing. And TTLG is like the Thief fan HQ, and it's ok for some fans to prefer the Thief game engines for use in Thief fan missions vs using TDM. But considering that TDM is custom made for allowing the ultimate Thief fan missions to be created, I think many will eventually give it a try and appreciate it's qualities. I was thinking, it would be great to have an official re-make of Thief and Thief II, keeping the excellent stories and gameplay that we know and love the same, but just update the graphics and guard AI using the DOOM IV engine or maybe the latest version of the Crysis 2 engine. Sort of like the ultimate Thief Gold versions; Thief Platinum.

I think we're at least 10 years away from having games with near photo-realistic graphics. Look how long it took to be able to render the original Toy Story in real-time on a high-end PC. Imagine a Thief game with that level of detail, lighting and shadows with an ultra-fine level of precision, nuance and granularity; Hammerite cathedrals that are so real you can almost smell the incense burning, sigh...

I disagree, I think the Doom III engine is excellent. You can make most anything you might want to with it, and the results look great (some of the buildings created look incredible). Thief fans can create any kind of level they want when working on their Thief fan missions with the Doom III engine, it's very flexible, with superb lighting and shadows. Not to mention that it's almost laughable to suggest using a different engine at this point. It took, what, around 4 years for the mod to be ready to the point that it could be released so Thief fans could start making their own Thief missions? It took a huge amount of effort to get all the various features in the mod and working properly. And now that the mod is finally out (but certainly not finished yet, more features, improvements and such are to come) and Thief fan missions can be made, you want the team to start over making the mod again with a new engine? Are you kidding me?? haha No chance at all, that would be crazy. Now is the time to keep improving the mod and adding in those good ideas that are on the wish list, making it the ultimate tool for making Thief fan missions.

Certainly seems like an improvement, as they appeared quite difficult to see in the before pictures. In fact, the new brightness adjustment looks very much like what you see in Thief and Thief II, in terms of keys and other important items standing out a bit against dark backgrounds. I'm surprised it isn't the default setting for the mod.

ungoliant is quite right. The Thief games are of excellent quality, no doubt about that, and have been successful in terms of sales. The problem is that most gamers simply do not have the attention span, and probably in many cases, the intellectual sophistication, required to appreciate the refined and subtle gameplay in a game like Thief. It's a game that requires patience, keen observation skills, clever thinking, precise and methodical infiltration and exfiltration techniques, etc. Many gamers simply don't have the attention span to focus on anything that requires that much thinking (whether it's a game or anything else). They'd rather just play a game on rails like Modern Warfare 2, with little or no thinking required. So those games tend to be more popular with the masses, but certainly not necessarily of higher quality.

I'd be very interested in getting a hooded DM sweat shirt for the proper effect. A design like the excellent Thief artwork posted by SneaksieDave would be great. Maybe the Dark Mod clock set inside a tall clock tower with a Ha.. er.. Builder cathedral with stained glass beside it, silhouetted against the dark blue sky, and the outline of Ga.. er.. the Thief lurking nearby, observing the buildings. And then set off to the side within the scene, just the words "The Dark Mod", in correct font. This would be a large design that would fill the back of the shirt from side to side, so there's plenty of detail to delight in. Use several different colors for the graphic. As rastertec pointed out, it adds very little to the cost of the shirt, and allows for some excellent artwork that really comes to life. Under the Dark Mod graphic could be an intriguing quote, in proper Thief type scripture font. On the front of the shirt, on the left side breast, could be the clock in burnished bronze, with a black background behind the gears, like we see at the top of this forum. Under the clock, just 3 letters in matching bronze TDM The shirt should be black, or at most very dark grey (perhaps an option for either when ordering?). That would look fantastic, I'd definitely get at least one! Please leave out any web site addresses or anything like that from the shirt, that would spoil the Thief medieval look and atmosphere of the shirt.

Thanks for the update to version 1.0. I'm sure the few remaining bugs will be fixed. I agree, this mission has a very Thiefy atmosphere and style. I hope all the Thief fans missions will carry on with this type of authentic Thief atmosphere, look and feel.

Ah, ok, thanks.

Any word on when the mission will be updated for version 1.0? LeatherMan: I look forward to seeing these huge Thief fan mission levels. I bet the fan mission designers are having a field day with the mighty DOOM III engine.

Hmm, yeah, I suppose you could call the large middle area where the discussion text appears a *very* light gray in color. And I already do have my monitor brightness turned down. In any case, it's way lighter than it was before, not nearly as Thiefy. Maybe the text and avatar picture areas can be made more like the darker background shade of gray that appears around the edges of the forum? That would look more appropriately atmospheric and sneaksie.

Yeah, it would be cool to have the two original Dark Mod Thief missions, just as they are, made to work with The Dark Mod version 1.0, this is an important part of The Dark Mod, and thus Thief, history. And also an extended version of Thief's Den, sort of a Thief's Den Gold.

The area that is bright is the entire large middle area of the forum where all the text and the player avatar pictures appear in the threads. For example, what I'm typing now and what you type will be all in this bright off-white sort of cream colored area. The area outside the text, on the far left and right side of the screen, is a medium gray thin vertical stripe. That looks ok, but the middle area is very light and bright. Surely there are color options with such a fancy looking forum, even if not individual custom options. Can the entire forum have the color put back more like it looked before, or anything darker than this?. A dark forum goes much better with The Dark Mod, and it's a lot less searing on the eyes, too.

Is there any way to set the forum skin back the way it was? A forum like The Dark Mod's, with all it's Thief fan mission goodness, looks best with dark colors.

My computer was being repaired for the last few weeks (just got it back), but shortly before it broke I finally got a chance to play through the "The Tears of Saint Lucia" mission. And I want to saw how good it is, everything is so well done! Great level design, story, voices, lighting, just the whole thing is quite polished and it gives you an idea of just how powerful the Doom III engine combined with The Dark Mod is for making elaborate Thief missions. Felt like a real Thief story in this mission, and I can't wait to see what great Thief fan missions the many dedicated Thief fans out there will make using The Dark Mod.

Wow, The Dark Mod is really starting to come together into a fully functional whole. Really cool Thief fan missions are getting closer all the time. I especially like how the candle was lit when it's wick touched the wick of the candle that was already burning.

Man, that is an extremely life-like recreation, great work, Komag! One look at that castle and you want to go inside, and one wonders what dangers and treasures Garrett might find within. Just goes to show how powerful the Doom III engine is when you have someone good using it. You can make just about anything, and make it look fantastically realistic, if you have the level design skills. I just upgraded my PC recently, so bring on the lavishly detailed castles, churches and mansions in the Thief fan missions.

Oh, I agree, there should be an option in the Dark Mod menu to turn off head movement/body sway completely. Since this sort of movement will bother different players to different extents. Ideally, in addition to the Turn Off option, there would be a slider that would allow the lessening of these movement effects without having to turn them off completely.

It's always tricky implementing head movement, swaying, etc. for character movement in a game. There's a fine line between making the movement seem natural and it feeling artificial or distracting. I'm sure the team will get it right.

I voted for The Dark Mod. It would be a good idea to update the TDM page on that site, just so the guys there can see how the mod is progressing and see that's it's still going strong and worth voting for.