Petike the Taffer

You mean streets, quarters, etc. ? I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. If you mean the basic formula and how it can devolve into blandness, I can agree on that. More about those thoughts below. (I'll agree that Thief Deadly Shadows was very good, to me at least.) Stealing has always been a game mechanic in stealth games of this type. It's there to achieve a goal, or gain additional resources, but you don't necessarily play to find all the loot or whatnot (self-imposed challenges notwithstanding). Most people play TDM and its relatives for the exploration, immersion, suspense, sense of adventure. The stuff imagination is made off, to put it a bit too poetically. Mystical ? Personally, I wouldn't call it mystical, but if a mission can include some thought-provoking detail in whatever sparse story it has, that's certainly a good bonus. One thing I'm wary of in any interactive story is pretention and preachiness. The player can take away certain things from a mission, but you shouldn't tell them exactly what those things are. It's also a bit of a responsibility to avoid melodramatic clichés in a story that could be potentially emotionally affecting. Readables that run for a relentless 20 pages, even if they are diaries, are not something I'm too fond of. And I'll admit I'm still figuring out ways to impart some backstory information on the player, without the main character writing or reading overly long paragraphs about their past life. You're always struggling to be as economical as possible. Impart the most needed and least inconsequential info, and keep chopping it on the chopping block until it's short enough, but still understandable and concise.

Mansion missions being too common I can understand (though I'd like to make a small one in the future), but what about short missions set in a city environment ? Thief's Den was set at the titular hideout and literally has two streets and a small courtyard. Thieves was set near a larger thieves' den and was something of a vengeance piece too. Too Late was set at a hideout next to the docks, with boats and all. The In a Time of Need series had a fancy house and grounds, and a bank near the docks. The Parcel and The Bakery Job are mostly about two bigger houses and their immediate vicinity, nothing complicated size-wise. Solar Escape was basically one or two streets, and most of the thieving goes on in a single building on that street. A New Job is also still fairly small for a city mission. So, what's still missing in this type of urban setting ? Outdoor missions in the woods and so on are better for medium-sized or large missions. A small mission with a setting like that would feel rather limited, and as a consequence, rather unconvincing, IMHO. So giving a hint of sprawling exteriors in an otherwise small mission is a bit counterproductive, I feel. Not sure about crypts and underground temples for short missions. Those sorts of spaces generally conjure up thoughts of something at least medium-sized or even more expansive. Some lost shrine or something would be okay size-wise, but a whole temple ? I doubt it. The setting is at odds with the mission size and scope. Crypts can be fairly small, though. A few years ago, Airship Ballet made a pretty scary mission at a small haunted church and its equally small crypt, and that worked exceptionally well due to the details and the storytelling. So, size is not necessarily everything, but I feel some spaces depend on size more than others. Before I ever make a supernatural mission, I'd like to start with more mundane-themed ones. The draw of The Dark Mod for me is being a skillful thief, not evading and fighting monsters. I think that a lot of supernatural missions (I have played at least 10, if not more) just throw in random undead, random skeletons and random horror work references and call it a day. If I ever do a horror/spooky mission, short or long, I'd prefer it to be rooted in a more psychological type of horror (the player not knowing what to do; fear of the unknown, etc.) and with relatively little conventional monsters. Not an easy thing to design, but I think it's just a lot more interesting, and can work well even in something as small as a house. I liked Mad's Mountain, back when I started trying out TDM in autumn 2014. Might be among the first five missions I've played. I chose it deliberately, to see if TDM can handle Thief-style diversity of environments. Technically, the setting of that mission is outdoors, but in a cave or mine system, and the lowest levels are flooded, with plenty of goodies. A good way to circumvent the engine limitations when it comes to outdoor environments. I don't remember too many similar missions since then, but I'll also admit I've played only about a third of all missions created to date (RL duties get in the way). Well, it seems I'm probably on the right track, then. Some three years ago, when I first started thinking about the characters for a series of missions (including the protagonist), I went down a few of these avenues. No master thief (how many of them are there, anyway ?), just an inexperienced young guy trying to make ends meet and impress a girl. It's actually a bit like you can read my mind, because the basic plot of the first mission will be about returning a lost item to a friend, rather than stealing it. Though besides that, the protagonist will get to steal a few things on the side ("Might as well, since I'll be making my way through town."). Concerning longer-term motivation, one of the character's dreams is to start over. Eventually move away to a different town or city, get a job and some housing of his own, maybe start a family. In the long term, I'd like to make that series of FMs have two protagonists: The aforementioned guy, and his significant other. She might not do any direct standing-in for the guy, but she will be a bit of an accomplice or aide in crime (and later, in him trying to leave behind a life of crime). As for moral ambiguity, that I am a fan of. The "everyone's a cruel bastard" thing is overused, especially if you can instead employ some nuanse in the characters, despite them living in a tough and often unforgiving world. Cool. I've always wondered about parkour on small maps. Never seemed that doable to me, at least not without breaking suspension of disbelief. Glad to hear it can work. Then again, Thief's Den did demonstrate some of it already years ago. As long as it's not too contrived, exploring a scenario like this every now and again can be fun. I think there is at least one FM that starts you off in prison, and it takes a while until you reacquire the blackjack.

A pleasant weekend to all. I have currently gone back to working on the layout, structural and plot design for the FMs I am making. Nothing to do with DarkRadiant, a basic prototype of a mission I have is currently on hold while I plan out more of the specifics. As I was thinking about the mission I plan to finish and release first, all that pondering brought me to the following questions: What sort of plots, themes and settings could we feature more often in shorter fan missions ? Are there any elements in shorter FMs that repeat a little too often and could be replaced with something less well-trodden ? (Not necessarily original, there isn't much new stuff under the sun.) Creating short or shorter FMs is often encouraged in our community, especially for newbie authors (for practice reasons) and to the benefit of newbie players (a shorter mission can still be complex and also provide a bite-sized experience to an inexperienced player, before they try the longer and harder stuff). As a newbie author, I'd like to know what sort of elements could help a shorter FM stand out, and still remain a coherent, more accessible FM, even for someone totally new to playing TDM. Thank you kindly, all of you, for any advice on this.

Of course.

I have added two new promotional videos about 2.06 that I was able to find. Check the announcements playlist to see those.

Windows 7 Professional Service Pack 1 32 bit (x86) Intel Core 2 Duo CPU E7500 2.93 GHz 2,00 GB RAM GeForce 9600 GSO 512

Glad to hear that.

TDM's setting being what it is, we might as well gather inspiration from real 15th century military inventions or proposals of such inventions. People were making them decades before Leonardo da Vinci started speculating and drawing. If you've ever heard of Hans Talhoffer's famous 1459 Fechtbuch, you'll know it's not just about various kinds of melee combat (in itself interesting for anyone into HEMA), but also features interesting military contraptions for defence, attack and general siege stuff. One of the more unusual inventions depicted is the "crayfish". It's a little, mechanical, armoured "robot" with an asymmetrical design, vaguely resembling a steel crayfish. It has various steel blades sticking out of it, at different lengths, on all sides, and these move as the crayfish is propelled back and forth. It is a device powered purely by pulleys, and its undercarriage is mounted in a shallow channel built into the cobblestones of an access road, e.g. a road leading to a gate or gatehouse. Operated from inside by defenders, turning winches and pulling pulleys, the crayfish goes to one wall, then to the other wall, then back again, etc. As it moves, the blades are also operated, and they can deliver nasty cuts to the ankles of enemy infantry. With enough stone channels built into the road, close enough together, and these crayfish going back and forth and their blades cutting into the air like wild, enemy infantry can be slowed down or deterred, lending the defenders some time. Horses and people on horseback have it even tougher. This invention is detailed in this publication about the Fechtbuch, on page 325. Well worth the read. A very good TV documentary about the Fechtbuch was made several years ago, with the cooperation of several historians, specialists, and the Medieval Centre technology museum in Denmark. The crayfish is detailed around the middle of that 45 minute docu. I think it's well worth at least a single watch. Challenge: Build a working "siege crayfish" trap for some fortification-related mission for TDM. Or any other type of location that could fit, really. There's also a design for a 15th century diving suit from Talhoffer's book. The helmet, with the air hose attached, was derived from a repurposed tournament helmet. Remarkably, a replica was tested during the making of that documentary I link to above. Though they were concerned it would be dangerous, surprisingly enough, it worked fine. Obviously, you needed a team of three volunteers, pumping air dilligently to the diver, via a system powered by period blacksmith bellows. But it worked. The experiment is seen in the finale of the docu. Challenge: A harbour or waterway based mission for TDM, where some of this archaic diving suit is being put to use. Maybe Bridgeport has some divers in the services of the city, helping to clean up muck down in the docks, and so on ? If we're talking medieval lasers, maybe we could also have ones that don't immediately set off a trap, but merely play some warning music or warning monologue from steampunk loudspeakers. Sort of like in this scene from a recent Westworld episode, where a guest is running away from a Bengal tiger after the robots went nuts, and she reaches the edge of the resort, near what appears to be a hydroelectric dam. As she and the tiger bypass the border between resorts, they run through a laser beam and that sets off a warning to the effect of "Attention, you have reached the boundary. You are not authorised to go further. Please turn back.". The loudspeakers could be similar to those seen operated by the Mechanists in The Metal Age.

ignore, accidental double-post (and can one delete these ?)

IIRC, that song's title has been Mechanists for years, and it was included on the first TDM soundtrack from 2005. If anyone is worried about possible legal issues, we can change the track's name anytime. (Including the soundtrack download package over at ModDB.com.) Just in case, I will check whether that music is really on the 2005 soundtrack. I remember it being there, but I might be mistaken. Better to double-check. ---- Update: I've checked it, and yes, it is there. Track number 6, Mechanists, by drewb50 (who did many music tracks for TDM in its early years). IIRC, it's still in the base game, available as an ambient. The only real issue might be the title, but as Springheel says, I sincerely doubt you can trademark the word "mechanists" any more than you could trademark a term like "The City". I see you've already removed it. I don't think you needed to, but oh well... Feel free to reupload the video in the same state it was before, and only change the name to "Builders". That's more than enough. I don't think Eidos would go after us due to a music track name that's been a part of TDM since 2005, but if some feel it's better to be on the safe side, I won't argue. An idea, Andrei, if you decide to change the visual parts of the video: Replace what looks like the Mechanist flag from Thief II with the Builder banner from TDM. The Builder symbol includes both a hammer and a gear, so it will fit in nicely as a replacement. Oh, and in case you don't have the original music track for the video anymore, I can send you a copy of the track, just let me know.

Some cog images for inspiration: Reconstruction of a Hansa cog at a museum in Bremen Remnants of a Hansa cog at a museum in Bremen Very cool. Concerning the terminology for the exact type of ship, be mindful of the fact that the type of rigging it used often made all the difference. A ketch's typical rigging, a brig's typical rigging. A while back, I made a Model addons repository article for the wiki. It lists model addons by various other authors, and your stuff is included there. If you could update the opening post of this thread with links to the newest stuff you've made, that would be great. Mission makers could find it more easily.

I'll confess that as a newb, I learnt the most about DarkRadiant from that (in some respects, fairly old) A-Z Beginner's tutorial on the wiki. Even when I deviated from it and did things my way, just trying out how different things are built, it was very helpful. The Newbie Questions thread, despite its sheer length, difficult searchability and free-wheeling nature, was also helpful. As a newb, I will confess the sheer amount of information and "where to even start" dilemma can be daunting, but such is modding. However, a separate subforum that would be aimed at complete beginners would indeed be a very helpful addition for the long-term growth and quality of the project. I think TDM has started to move out of its "just a couple of devs and fans" development era. The game is now really viable. Expanding the fanbase and especially the number of willing and skillful modders/mission-makers is very important. To that end, making the tutorial and advice information even more user-friendly is a laudable goal.

Thank you very much, I've already downloaded it ! I'll see what I can do. Yes, come to think of it, the voice sounded a bit different to your's. I might add this to Andros' resume in the voice actors article on the wiki. What tags would you and the others recommend for the official trailer ? I'd like to give it at least the same tags as you have on your own channel. ---- Minor update: The trailer has been uploaded to our channel and set as the introduction video. Every unsubscribed person will see it.

So I suppose we might as well send him the current login details...

I bet Bum Simulator started out by someone thinking of puns on Bus Simulator... Also, the voice of the Plutocracy trailer narrator is a bit... weird.

I'd like to appeal to Springheel and the development team's members: If you can find the time in the near future, please upload the Official TDM Trailer to our official channel. Then I'll be able to set it as an introductory trailer for the channel, which will be particularly useful when dealing with newcomers to the channel.

Well, it is sort of a "historical fantasy" type of thing, mixed in with a little alternate history. The "alternate Europe, with fantasy elements" concept isn't that much different to what writers like Guy Gavriel Kay do in their fantasy books (in his case, low-fantasy analogues of specific real world regions in specific eras). As Springheel said above, while we do have a basis or backstory for the setting at large, you will mostly not notice it in the individual stories of the missions, because that degree of backstory (whether geographic, historical or fantastical) isn't the main focus of the game and its missions. In this sense, while it is different to Thief, it's also in the spirit of Thief. Small, mundane, very localised stories. Often with the feel of an epic, but without the set dressing of an epic or the intention of telling an epic.

Already three years back, as I was playing various missions, I was gathering names and basic information on the various settlements the missions took place in (if it was clear the mission took place outside of Bridgeport). Here's a growing list: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Other_Cities_and_Towns In fact, I want to expand it again today. I've noticed a few new towns in some missions, so I will definitely reference them. In my own planned series of missions, I intend to reference plenty of the established towns and cities, even the more obscure ones.

Okay, the video tutorials on the channel and the wiki are organised now. Let me know if something else is still needed. Done. I think it's better to keep the tutorials separate by author, lest we confuse newcomers by one huge playlist. However, in each of the tutorial playlists, I have added links to the other tutorials. Now the viewers of those videos can find the other ones very easily, regardless of which playlist they watch first.

All of the video tutorials will be added. There's no sense in keeping them just to the wiki. But I'm tired and need to give it a rest for at least a day. I've thought of that, but it just didn't sit right. Should we encourage new fans to keep badgering us about stuff like belchers or ridable horses ? I quickly realised it would just cause confusion and problems. The development playlist therefore only includes stuff that will realistically make it into near-future releases. It's for the best that we not entice newcomers with ideas that are on hiatus for a long time or might not resurface in future development at all. For the time being, if someone discovers that "weirdness playlist", they can think of it as a neat easter egg. The more experimental, but far-from-usable side of TDM. Wouldn't our most recent trailer from last year, voiced by Goldwell, work well as the introductory trailer for the channel ? I could certainly see it, it has all the basic info on the game. I can add it, if no one minds. P.S. update: Okay, I've gone back and checked it, and the issue is that we don't have a copy of the trailer on the channel itself (it's on Goldwell's channel). So, until some team member uploads Goldwell's official trailer to the channel, I have my hands tied. I can only add a video as an intro trailer if it's uploaded to the channel itself. Thanks. Structurally, I had things thought out already weeks ago. (Though I'll confess I've never featured playlists on the opening page before, so this bit of experience was new even to me. )

Glad to hear that. I will of course welcome any constructive feedback. Still doing a few checks if I've finished everything I wanted to this evening. Then I'll log off and return to my own account. ---- An overview of the playlists and their descriptions: Tutorials: TDM New Mappers Workshop - "Introducing newbie mappers into building levels (maps) for TDM fan missions. New to mapping (level building) in TDM ? These tutorials are an absolute must-see ! With detailed and insightful commentary by Springheel, TDM development veteran." Tutorials: Springheel's Modules (TDM 2.05 and above) - "A shorter series of tutorial videos, in which Springheel explains how to use the new modular building assets for mapping (level building)." Tutorials: Let's Map TDM ! (by Sotha) - "Sotha's "Let's Map TDM !" series of video tutorials." Tutorials: Let's Map TDM - "Let's Map TDM" video tutorial series, by Obsttorte. The first three of these videos are in German with English subtitles, but they are in English after that." Tutorials: Komag's TDM/Dark Radiant 101 - "Basic, TDM 101 tutorials by past TDM developer Komag. Installing The Dark Mod, its level editor Dark Radiant and some level building advice. Slightly older video tutorials, but since they are basic, the fundamentals described in them have not changed. You can use them to learn quickly about visportals and the like..." Tutorials: Bikerdude's Module Speed Build Series - "Level building (mapping) tutorial series, utilising modular level-building assets, with commentary by Bikerdude." Tutorials: Springheel's Speed Build Challenge - "A step-by-step Let's Build, attempting to use modules and prefabs to build a mission in under 4 hours." Trailers (2013-present, 2.0) - "Trailers for The Dark Mod since the 2.0 standalone version (2013-present)." Major update announcements - "Announcements of upcoming major updates to TDM, with previews presenting the updated or brand new content. Technical improvements, gameplay improvements, new art assets and AIs, new AI behaviour, and much more... (Announcement videos have become a regular feature after TDM went standalone with version 2.0.)" Development footage - "Shorter videos of testing features that were or are in development, accumulated over the years of The Dark Mod's development. Little sneak-peaks into early versions of various features and mechanics." Mission cinematics and promos - "Opening cinematics (including ones for opening briefings) and various promo videos for individual TDM missions." Let's Plays (SPOILERS !) - "Let's Plays, both older and newer, but mostly newer, showcasing various missions for The Dark Mod. Let's Plays of various authors. Beware of SPOILERS for individual missions ! Let's Players featured on the playlist (in alphabetical order): AluminumHaste, BoyLag, DrLizShawOBE2, FenPhoenix, FinSompi, MasterHelpo, Paul11290, PsycoRevolution, Reimar, TheMasterFoundry, ThreadbareInc, V339" Gameplay tips - "Various tips on what to look out for during gameplay and how to improve your grasp on various gameplay mechanics." Trailers (2004-2013, pre-2.0) - "Older trailers, from the first nine years of The Dark Mod's development, before the TDM went standalone with version 2.0." Featurettes - "Videos other than trailers, presenting the base game or a particular mission or addon project in greater depth. Short videos, but longer than any of the trailers or update announcement videos." External reviews - "Older and newer video reviews of The Dark Mod, by external authors or editorial staff from around the world." Music of The Dark Mod - "Various music from The Dark Mod soundtrack. Most of the soundtrack was created back in 2005, but there have been gradual additions to it since the project's early years. The 2005 compilation can be downloaded here:" http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/official-soundtrack-vol-1 Curios and undeveloped content - "Prototype content from early development that didn't quite make it into the current versions (for various reasons), experimental addons by various people, and even strange bugs. This playlist is an assortment of weirdness and the occassional amusing bits." Important note: Each tutorial playlist has links to all the other tutorial playlists in its description. Just so that all of them could get a fair amount of exposure, even if someone never bothers to click the Playlists tab of the channel. ---- Sites linked from the About page: TDM Official Website TDM Official Forums TDM Official Wiki TDM Facebook TDM Steam Group TDM ModDB

All right, Springheel figured out the login stuff and I've had some time to edit the channel this evening. Tell me what you think: TDM channel Is everything showing up nicely enough ? Are there roughly 9 different playlists under the Uploads one ? Concerning links to our sites, I've added the four basic ones to the channel's About page, as well as a few Featured Channels to the bar on the right, on that same page.

I can't download the files right now, I was gone the whole week. Did anyone else download or move Bikerdude's videos ?

I like that they're a bit more subtle and sound crisp enough. I'm not enough of a pro to evaluate whether there might be sound issues or not, so I'll leave that aspect be. Even if they don't replace the current sound effects, I suppose people could use them as an alternative sound pack for the blackjack, on an individual basis.