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============== -= IRIS =- ============== WELLINGTONCRAB TDM v 2.11 REQ Ver. 1.3 *For Maureen* -=- "Carry the light of the Builder, Brother. Unto its end." -Valediction of the Devoted "What year is this? Am I dreaming?" -Plea of the Thief Dear Iris, I am old and broken. When we were young it felt like the words came easily. Now I find the ink has long dried on the pen and I'm as wanting for words as coin in my purse. I can tell we are nearing the end of the tale; time enough for one more job before the curtain call... ============== -Installation- Requires minimum version of TDM 2.11 -Iris does not support mods or the Unofficial Patch- Download and place the following .pk4 into you FMs directory: Iris Download ============== *Thank you for playing. Iris is a large mission which can either take as quickly or as long as you are compelled to play. I hope someone out there enjoys it and this initial release is not completely busted - I tried the best I could!* *Iris both is and isn't what it seems. If commenting please use spoiler tags where appropriate. If you are not certain if it would be appropriate a good assumption would be to use a spoiler tag* *Support TDM by rating missions on Thief Guild: https://www.thiefguild.com/* ============== WITH LASTING GRATITUDE: OBSTORTTE - Whose gameplay scripts from his thread laid the foundation which made the mission seem like something I could even pull off at all. Also fantastic tutorial videos! DRAGOFER - Who built upon that foundation and made it shine even brighter! And whom also provided immeasurable quantities of help and encouragement the past couple years on the TDM discord. ORBWEAVER & GIGAGOOGA - For generously offering their ambient music up for use. EPIFIRE - Who lent me his fine trash and trash receptacle models. AMADEUS - Who was the first person who wasn't me to play the damn thing and provided his excellent editorial services to improving the readers experience playing TESTERS AND TROUBLESHOOTERS: AMADEUS * DATISWOUS * SPOOKS * ALUMINUMHASTE * JAXA * JACKFARMER * WESP5 * ATE0ATE * MADTAFFER * STGATILOV * DRAGOFER * KINGSAL * KLATREMUS - What can I possibly say? Playing this thing over and over again could not have been easy. Deepest thanks and all apologies. -=THANKS TO ALL ON THE TDM DISCORD AND FORUM=- ==SEE README.TXT FOR ADDITIONAL ATTRIBUTIONS & INFORMATION== HONORABLE MENTION: GOLDWELL - If I hadn't by chance stumbled into Northdale back in 2018/2019 I would probably still be trying to get this thing to work in TDS, which means it probably would not exist - though more details on that in readme. ============== Boring Technical Information: *Iris is a performance intensive mission and I recommend a GTX 1060 or equivalent. I find the performance similar to other demanding TDM missions on my machine, but mileage may vary and my apologies if this prevents anyone from enjoying the mission.* *Iris heavily modifies the behavior of AI in the game, how they relate/respond to each other and the player. So they may act even stranger than they do typically in TDM. Feedback on this is useful - as it can potentially be improved and expanded upon in future patches.* -=- This is my first release and it has been a long time coming! If I forgot anything please let me know! God Speed. 2.10 Features Used:

EDIT: This topic was initially named "Frob Helper madness". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- While working on something I analyzed the Frob Helper. The Frob Helper was enabled by default in 2.11. The options were: Show Frob Helper: Yes [Default] No [Tip] Makes interacting with small objects easier by temporarily displaying a white dot. ------------------------------------------------------------------ In 2.12 the Frob Helper remains enabled by default but things changed: Show Frob Helper: Always Hover Fade In [Default] Fade In Fast No [Tip] Makes interacting with small objects easier: Always = Show crosshair dot at all times Hover = Instantly show dot on highlight Fade In = Gradually show dot on highlight Fade In Fast = Same as Fade In but faster ------------------------------------------------------------------ If I was new to TDM I would expect a "Frob Helper" to help me identify frobs: you can interact with this, here is the helper so that you know it and you know where the center of the screen is in case you need it. The Frob Helper however was designed to compensate for the shortcomings of other mechanics of the game, and as such, the Frob Helper is flawed by design: it only shows up if the size of the object is smaller than the arbitrary value of 40. I will say at this point that I am well aware of the tdm_frobhelper_ignore_size cvar but this isn't the point. This game isn't a shooter and "Always on" is not required unless we are talking motion sickness, in which case it belongs in a hidden cvar, for the few that may need it. The starting point of the Frob Helper should have been: On (the helper shows up whenever you can interact with something) Off From this point we can expand with more options, of course: Always on (not recommended based on the nature of the game) On for all items - Hover On for all items - Fade In On for all items - Fade In Fast [Default] On for small items - Hover On for small items - Fade In On for small items - Fade In Fast Always off

For the people eager to play with the latest state of development, two things are provided: regular dev builds source code SVN repository Development builds are created once per a few weeks from the current trunk. They can be obtained via tdm_installer. Just run the installer, check "Get Custom Version" on the first page, then select proper version in "dev" folder on the second page. Name of any dev version looks like devXXXXX-YYYY, where XXXXX and YYYY are SVN revision numbers from which the build was created. The topmost version in the list is usually the most recent one. Note: unless otherwise specified, savegames are incompatible between any two versions of TDM! Programmers can obtain source code from SVN repository. Trunk can be checked out from here: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/ SVN root is: https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src Build instructions are provided inside repository. Note that while you can build executable from the SVN repository, TDM installation of compatible version is required to run it. Official TDM releases are compatible with source code archives provided on the website, and also with corresponding release tags in SVN. A dev build is compatible with SVN trunk of revision YYYY, where YYYY is the second number in its version (as described above). If you only want to experiment with the latest trunk, using the latest dev build gives you the maximum chance of success. P.S. Needless to say, all of this comes with no support. Although we would be glad if you catch and report bugs before the next beta phase starts

https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152224 There is a new mapping contest over on TTLG for the Thief: Deadly Shadows 20th Anniversary and the organizers were kind enough to include The Dark Mod along with all of the Thief games as an options for making a mission to submit as an entry. The deadline is a year from yesterday and the rules are pretty open. I recommend going to the original thread for the details but I will summarize here: Rules: - The mission(s) can be for Thief 1, Thief 2, Deadly Shadows or The Dark Mod. - Collaborations are allowed. - Contestants can use any custom resource they want, though TDM cannot use the Deadly Shadows resource pack. - Contestants can submit more than one mission. - Contestants can enter anonymously. - The mission(s) can be of any size. Using prefabs is allowed but the idea is this is a new mission and starting from an abandoned map or importing large areas from other maps is not allowed. Naturally this is on the honor system as we have no way of validating. Mission themes and contents: There is no requirement from a theme or story viewpoint, however contestants might consider that many players may expect or prefer missions to be celebratory of Thief: Deadly Shadows in this respect: castles, manors, museums, ruins inhabited by Pagans and the like, with a balance of magic versus technology. This is entirely up to the authors, though, to follow or not - it is just mentioned here as an FYI and, while individual voters may of course choose to vote higher or lower based on this on their own, it will not be a criteria used explicitly in voting or scoring. Deadline: May 25th, 2024 at 23:59 Pacific Time. See the TTLG thread for details on submissions and the voting process. Provided I can make the deadline I hope to participate. It would be nice to see the entire community do something together, and expressing our complicated relationship with this divisive game seems as good a pretext as any.

Strange. Just restarted the game and loaded from my last save and... they work now! Perhaps restarting was the answer all along. I probably should've tested that before running to the forums - sorry about that!

I have changed the subject to "Frob Helper discussion". Here are some situations where the frob highlight falls short: - Pick up items inside containers (frob fighting) - Pick items from KO/dead bodies (frob fighting) - Manipulate KO/dead bodies (am I aiming at the arm?) - Detect frobs (large and small) in some conditions, specially when it is bright: Frobable vent door or window Frobable painting Frobable book in a bookshelf ... Questions for everyone: Should an optional frob helper help in all the above situation or in some only? Do you detect any areas of improvement for the current Frob Helper?

Welcome to the Snatcher's Workshop. Come on in, we may have something for you today. Feel free to look around. We trade everything here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- We realize new ideas and take existing ideas for a spin. For fun. Somewhere in this post you will find a download with mods. Good care was put to make all mods as little intrusive as possible to make them compatible with as many missions as possible. This set of mods will never break your game but some features won't be available in a handful of missions (the reasons are known). Feel free to report here what works and what doesn't. TDM Modpack vs. Unofficial Patch The TDM Modpack and wesp5's Unofficial Patch are incompatible since both the Pack and the Patch use a similar approach to mods. With the release of recent versions of the TDM Modpack I consider the most relevant features of the Unofficial Patch have been matched, superseded, improved, or simply implemented in different ways. More importantly, the TDM Modpack is not only tightly packed and it has a minimal impact in your install but it achieves more by altering less core files, meaning more compatibility and less maintenance. One can, of course, argue. TDM Modpack v4.0 Compatible with The Dark Mod 2.12 ONLY A lightweight, stable, non-intrusive, mission-friendly Modpack for The Dark Mod that includes many enhancements and a new set of tools and abilities for our protagonist: peek through doors, blow and ignite candles, whistle to distract enemies, mark your location, an invisibility-speed combo and more. Mods included in the pack do not alter your game or any of the missions in any relevant way. The pack includes enhancements to the core game and additions that can be used in missions but at the same time respects the vision of the mission creators. It is up to you to make use of any of the new tools and abilities or not. Please note that sometimes authors include in their missions their own versions of core files and as a result, some mods are not available in some missions. All missions will play fine regardless. Release posts: v4 series: v4.0 v3 series: v3.0 | v3.2 | v3.3 | v3.4 | v3.5 | v3.6 | v3.8 v2 series: v2.0 | v2.2 | v2.4 | v2.5 | v2.6 | v2.7 | v2.8 v1 series: v1.0 | v1.2 | v1.4 | v1.6 | v1.8 What's included in the pack? -:- APP: GENERIC MOD ENABLER -:- Credits: JoneSoft License: Free for unlimited time for Home users and non-profit organizations. Description: A portable, freely distributable Mod enabler/disabler. This application is required to run mods safely and it is included in the pack. At the heart of the Modpack resides JSGME (JoneSoft Generic Mod Enabler), an application that allows players to enable and disable mods with one click. JSGME has been around for more than a decade and it is to be fully trusted. Refer to the install instructions section at the bottom for full details. -:- MOD: AUTO COMMANDS -:- By activating Auto Commands some key bindings will be set automatically. F1, F2, F3 and F4 keys are not used by the game and we are reserving them for mods: - F1: Cycle through the Skills category - F2: Cycle through the Tools category - F3: Switch between Loot and Stealth stats - F4: Direct shortcut to "Penumbra" None of these categories or shortcuts can be set to any hotkey in-game currently, so we are using the built-in autocommands.cfg file to set up the keys. It may be the case you already make use of the autocommands.cfg file to configure other things to your needs or liking therefore consider yourself warned. Enable Auto Commands if you plan on using Core Essentials and/or the Skill Upgrade. -:- MOD: CORE ESSENTIALS -:- A pack that includes a variety of mods from the best modders of TDM: ~ FAST DOORS Credits: Idea and programming by Obsttorte. Treatment by snatcher. Availability: All missions except Noble Affairs, Seeking Lady Leicester, Shadows of Northdale ACT II, Snowed Inn and a handful of lesser missions. Description: Being chased? In a rush? No problem: doors open and close faster when running. Topic: Slam doors open while running ~ QUIET DOORS Credits: An idea by SeriousToni (Sneak & Destroy mission). Mod by snatcher. Availability: All missions except Noble Affairs, Seeking Lady Leicester, Shadows of Northdale ACT II, Snowed Inn and a handful of lesser missions. Description: A vast number of doors play more subtle, sneaky sounds for a quieter, stealthier experience. This applies to doors that come with default sounds but only when manipulated by the player. Topic: Decrease volume of open/close door sounds triggered by player ~ LOOT ANIMATIONS Credits: Original idea by Goldwell (Noble Affairs mission). Programming by Obsttorte. Treatment by snatcher and wesp5. Availability: All missions except Noble Affairs, Seeking Lady Leicester, Shadows of Northdale ACT II, Snowed Inn and a handful of lesser missions. Description: Moves the loot towards the player before putting it in the inventory, underlining the impression of actually taking it. This mod comes with a subtle new loot sound that goes along nicely with the animation. ~ DYNAMIC LOOT INVENTORY Credits: snatcher. Availability: All missions except Noble Affairs, Seeking Lady Leicester, Shadows of Northdale ACT II, Snowed Inn and a handful of lesser missions. Description: When picking up loot this mod displays the loot info in the inventory and shortly after reverts back to the last non-loot item selected. ~ SMART CONTAINERS Credits: Obsttorte (source code updates), Dragofer (similar attempts), snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: To facilitate looting, the bottom of many containers (chests, jewellery boxes, etc...) gets automatically disabled at the beginning of the mission and only the lid remains frobable. ~ STEALTH MONITOR Credits: kcghost, Dragofer, snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: Display some stats (Suspicions / Searches / Sightings) and the Stealth Score during a mission. Bring up the "Loot" inventory icon and press "Use" or just press F3 repeatedly if using Auto Commands. ~ STEALTH ALERT Credits: snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: Completing a mission without being seen is something that can be done with some practice and patience. This mod will play an alerting chime whenever you are seen so that you don't have to monitor the Stealth stats all the time. ~ BLINKING ITEMS Credits: snatcher. Availability: All missions. Requisites: Console command r_newFrob must be 0, which is the game default. Description: Items within frob distance that go into the inventory (plus static readables) emit a subtle blink. This pulse can help you identify some valuable items that otherwise are difficult to detect. Topic: New Frob Shader ~ SMART OBJECTS Credits: snatcher, Dragofer. Availability: All missions. Description: Sometimes it is difficult to tell if an object is being held or not. Three dots will be displayed on screen whenever you grab an object, unless the object has name, in which case the name of the object will be displayed. In addition, objects (except AI entities) do not make or propagate sounds on impact while being manipulated. Topics: No impact sounds while holding an object / Nameless objects... a missed opportunity ~ SHADOWMARK TOOL Credits: snatcher, Obsttorte. Availability: All missions. Description: Our protagonist's lucky deck! When the item is selected the player can drop and throw playing cards to mark a location. Cards can be retrieved. AI will not normally mind a single card lying around but cards can sometimes be noticed. Topic: Find more details in this post ~ ALT FOOTSTEPS ON WATER Credits: SeriousToni. Availability: All missions except Hazard Pay, Noble Affairs, Shadows of Northdale ACT I and ACT II, Snowed Inn, Volta 2: Cauldron and a handful of lesser missions. Description: Alternative sounds of footsteps on water for our protagonist (walk / run / land). Topic: New Footstep sounds ~ OTHER ADDITIONS Re-worked Inventory menu (more compact). Alternative high mantle sound for our protagonist. Revamped and extended "Mission Complete" audio theme. -:- MOD: SKILL UPGRADE -:- A new "Skills" category is added to the inventory on mission load and the category includes the below abilities: Did you know? When using Auto Commands you can press F1 to access the "Skills" category and F4 to quickly access "Penumbra"... ~ SKILL: OBSERVATION Credits: Dragofer, snatcher, wesp5 Availability: All missions. Description: When the "Peek Door" item is selected the player can peek through any regular door. Select the item in the inventory and "Use" it on a door. Topic: Peek through (almost) every door ~ SKILL: MANIPULATION Credits: Dragofer, wesp5, Obsttorte, snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: When the "Blow / Ignite" item is selected the player can blow out and light up candles and oil lamps. Select the item in the inventory and "Use" it on small flame sources. Topic: Extinguish small lights with a blow ~ SKILL: COMBINATION Credits: OrbWeaver, MirceaKitsune, datiswous, wesp5, snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: When the "Alchemy" item is selected the player can alter the properties of broadhead arrows by applying different reagents. Select the item in the inventory and "Use" it repeatedly to cycle through the different arrow types. Topic: Alchemy to alter arrow properties? Arrow types: Shadow arrow compound or "Darkdust": Widely believed to be a myth, little to nothing is known about anti-light matter. Where did our protagonist get his formula from? When this substance is subject to strain the particles implode and the residual component absorbs light until it dissipates completely. Flare arrow compound or "Starlight": A recipe based on luminescent mushrooms and other exotic herbs. The resulting powder produces, for limited time, a dim but steady blue-ish glow when mixed with the right reactive. A high concentration of the active mixture can cause a burning sensation to the eyes. ~ SKILL: DISTRACTION Credits: snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: When the "Whistle" item is selected the player can whistle and draw the attention of nearby AI. The more you whistle, the more attention it draws. Select the item in the inventory and just "Use" it. Keep a safe distance. ~ SKILL: ALTERATION Credits: VanishedOne (speed potion), kingsal (invisibility potion), snatcher (alchemy). Availability: All missions. Description: When the "Penumbra" item is selected the player can avoid light sources and run faster than usual for limited time. Health consumed will gradually be restored. Penumbra doesn't muffle the noise you make and it doesn't work when in contact with water. Press F4 to quickly access this ability if using Auto Commands. THE PATH TO UMBRA: How to become one with the shadows -:- MOD: CLASSIC BLACKJACK -:- Credits: Obsttorte, snatcher. Availability: All missions except A House of Locked Secrets and By Any Other Name. Description: A straightforward approach to blackjacking with new rules and mechanics inspired by the original Thief games. Never miss a KO again! - No indicator required. "Classic Blackjack" rules: Some AI are KO-immune and cannot be KOed: * Undead, creatures... * Guards wearing heavy helmets (to respect TDM vision) * Other: set by mission authors for the plot, in example The rest of AI can be KOed, just aim for the head: * Civilians: Can always be knocked out from any direction * Combatants: Can always be knocked out (including when fleeing) from any direction except when in high alert state (normally in combat mode) As reference, you can find in the Wiki the set of rules of the non-modded TDM: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=The_Dark_Mod_Gameplay#Blackjacking -:- MOD: FLASH GRENADE -:- Credits: snatcher, kingsal. Availability: All missions except Hazard Pay and Moongate Ruckus. Description: Flashbombs are clumsy and loud but as effective as ever. Instead of throwing Flashbombs like a cannonball we now toss them. Instead of exploding on impact Flashbombs now have a fuse. The chances of blinding have been greatly increased. -:- MOD: HUNTER BOW -:- Credits: snatcher. Availability: Most missions (a few missions do things differently but you should never notice). Description: Nock and draw arrows at a faster rate. Extended radius of gas arrow effect. Chance to retrieve rope arrows when missing a shot. -:- MOD: SHOCK MINE -:- Credits: wesp5, snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: This mod replaces the Flashmines with customized, "High Voltage" electric mines. Remember: mines can be disarmed with the lockpicks! -:- MOD: SIMPLE SUBTITLES -:- Credits: Geep, stgatilov, snatcher. Availability: All missions. Description: A minimalist, imperfect approach to subtitles (you can set the scope of the subs in the audio settings). Topics: Subtitles - Possibilities Beyond 2.11 / English Subtitles for AI Barks Go to the audio settings and set the scope you prefer: Story: Story only On: Story and general speech (Give it a try!) Off: Disable subtitles Features of the mod: Background replaced with a font outline. Audio source widget replaced with a text transparency based on distance (volume) to the source. Yellow font color for story subs for best contrast, light grey font color for anything else. Non-story subs limited to a single instance, so that players aren't bothered too much with non-relevant subs (barks). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOWNLOADS / INSTALL / UNINSTALL So, how do I install and play with all this? Quite easy, but pay attention. I don't want you to break your game so we will be using a "Mod Enabler". A Mod Enabler allows you to enable and disable mods at will, with a few clicks. Before moving forward you must know a couple of things: The moment you enable a mod, previous saves will not work. If you want to load previous saves then you will have to disable the mod. If you play a mission with mods, the saves will only work when that exact set of mods are enabled. This above is important in case you deem your current saves precious. Consider yourself informed. DOWNLOADS You can download the TDM Modpack from Mod DB: INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS Download the zip, unzip it, and move contents to your TDM root folder: Folder "MODS" File "JSGME.exe" Go to your TDM root folder and double click on JSGME.exe (yellow icon). The first time you launch JSGME, it will ask for the "Mods Folder Name". Leave "MODS" and click OK. Now to your left you will find a list of mods available. To your right you will find a list of mods currently enabled. To enable a mod, select a mod on the left, and click on the arrow pointing to the right. To disable a mod, select a mod on the right, and click on the arrow pointing to the left. Go and enable the mods you want: UNINSTALL INSTRUCTIONS Quit the game (to unblock files) Go to your TDM root folder and double click on JSGME.ese (yellow icon) Disable all mods found on the right Close JSGME Delete the following: Folder "MODS" File "JSGME.exe" File "JSGME.ini" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope you enjoy the mods. No coin? then leave a like for pirate's sake!

@Marbrien please use spoiler tags As to your questions:

Not sure if you confused tdm_frobhelper_fadein_duration with tdm_frobhelper_fadein_delay here, but if anything, I would discard the delay. The fadein_duration is supposed to smoothen the appearance of the frobhelper, thereby making it a bit more subtle. Why would you want to delay displaying the frob helper and then have it pop in instantly? If a player wants it to be intrusive, the hover option is the way to go. Subtlety was a key requirement in the design of this feature. Thats probably something we should fix.

It goes without saying that I appreciate your comments and I respect your work, eh. We all want the best for TDM. The frob highlight doesn't work well in some situations: difficult to detect in small objects or in large objects in some conditions, frob fighting in bodies and containers... The frob outline initiative failed to provide an alternative and the Frob Helper was supposed to complement the frob highlight but it did it partially, and we ended up with blinking mods, container-disabling mods, auto search bodies... and a questionable Frob Helper. Perhaps madness is the better word. I know people don't like the idea of corsshairs in TDM but a Frob Helper with tdm_frobhelper_ignore_size = 0 would have settled many things for good from day one. I think we agree.

The TDM Unofficial Patch is a personal project of mine to modify some small details that annoyed me in the core game. It wouldn't be possible without many others, so thanks to the whole TDM community for discussions and help, but especially to friendly modders who directly contributed code for it, like Obsttorte, Dragofer, Kingsal, Goldwell, Destined, and snatcher! You can find it under the link below and while over the years there was little progress, in recent times many things have been improved that I never even thought of when I started and some might be worth to be included in the core game. https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/the-dark-mod-unofficial-patch Version Changelog: ------------------ v1.7 20.08.2022 ---- Made loot icon change right back to last tool icon, thanks snatcher. Added new whistle player skill to distract NPCs, thanks to snatcher. Made more lights extinguishable and added info for 4 beta missions. Corrected container bottom fix messing up drawers, thanks Dragofer. Improved unlit behaviour of moveable light sources, thanks snatcher. Corrected lit lamps set to extinguished in maps, thanks to Dragofer. Changed western empire maps so the location of Bridgeport is vague. Added several major city names to the small map, thanks to Kukutoo. Fixed frobing animation not working with bound and carried entities. v1.6 23.07.2022 ---- Improved extinguishing oil lamps, thanks to Dragofer and Obsttorte. Added frobing animation, thanks to Obsttorte, Goldwell and snatcher. Fixed container bottoms and training mission chest, thanks Dragofer. Made doors open faster when running, thanks Obsttorte and snatcher. Added more player tools to training mission and improved text there. Fixed Holy Water doing no damage and Hazard Pay not starting at all. Made all five oil lamps in Sotha's "The Bakery Job" extinguishable. Added blow player skill to snuff out small flames, thanks snatcher. Changed Unarmed icon to make clear that the player always has a bow. v1.5 02.07.2022 ---- Created Invisibility Potion out of cut Speed Potion, thanks Kingsal. Increased arrow head shot damage to both living and undead enemies. Replaced slow matches with easier to handle flints, thanks Kingsal. v1.4 10.03.2022 ---- Replaced Frob Helper with dark Frob Outline and updated to TDM 2.10. Made electric mine stun elite guards too and improved mission names. Renamed mission installation/selection UI mishmash to "activation". v1.3 21.02.2021 ---- Changed flashmine to stunning electric mine and updated to TDM 2.09. Edited more mission names and made threefold candles extinguishable. v1.2 26.08.2020 ---- Updated to TDM 2.08 and fixed custom holywater script compatibility. Added Numbers Scroll showing stealth and loot info, thanks Dragofer. Edited more mission names to avoid truncated descriptions in menus. Added default keys info to training mission and repaired cut lines. v1.1 03.02.2019 ---- Moveable candles can be extinguished directly by frobing the candle. More blackjack immune enemies and inextinguishable candles modified. The key frob distance has been decreased to be that of lockpicking. Holy Water bottles must be thrown directly, but they do more damage. The controls settings menu additions have been updated for TDM 2.07. New mission names have been fixed to fix format and spacing issues. Added looking up and looking down controls for people without mouse. Pointed bad prefabs container open/close sounds to existing effects. Added version info to starting screen and edited some new missions. v1.0 06.05.2018 ---- Many enemies will not become immune to blackjacking when alerted. Oil lamps can be snuffed by frobing, thanks Destined and Obsttorte. The controls settings menu lists that "use" can work on held items. Mission names were syncronized between download and online lists. The controls settings menu lists that "frob" can get or drop items. Astericks were added to official missions to move them to list top. Minor text and format bugs have been fixed in some mission infos.

To be honest, while I kept the frob helper available in my latest patches, I use the dark outline instead which is really nice :)!

I'd hardly call it a mod, if the functionality is already there and it's merely about presenting the settings in a different way. Anyway, I already said that I basically concur and that I would ideally like to see an extra accessibility settings GUI for all related features: frob helper, head bob, more subtle mantle animations, you name it... Still, your reasoning is kind of wrong because the intention of the frob helper was not to detect frobably objects, but to help the player aim on small frobable objects. The "Always On" feature unconditionally helps the player aim, so this does not conflict with the intention of the frob helper at all.

The problem with the lever is if people have the frob helper turned on... And you're right about the cabinets - they can probably be moved. I guess I'll have to add these scripts to the ever-growing list of unreliable TDM features....

Because it's super useful not having to browse through the whole thread, and probably not even finding what you're looking for, because people put it in spoiler tags, which are excluded from the search. You don't have to click on the spoiler tag in the original post.

Basically someone always asks. We're all grownups here and it's in spoiler tags so...

I always tweak the tdm_frobhelper_ignore_size such that it is enabled for all object sizes as well because I prefer it that way. However, back when I implemented this feature, it was common feedback that it shouldn't be enabled for big objects like doors etc. because it was intended to help frobbing small objects, i.e., it was not supposed to be an interaction indicator, which we already had in the frob-highlight. The reasoning for this feature still stands today, so I don't see how this qualifies as madness. The "Always On" feature has indeed been added as an accessibility feature as it supposedly helps some people with motion sickness, and since there were now already multiple options, I also added the "fade-in fast"-option because I felt the delay of the usual fade-in was so long that the frob helper wasn't really that helpfull in more hectic situations. Accessibility features should by definition never be hidden, so I would not remove the "Always On"-option. In fact, I would actually like to see an extra options page only listing accessibility options. On that page, we could then of course also add a checkmark-option to enable frob helper only for small objects.

I moved the frob helper and the frob outline options onto the gameplay difficulty page in the Unofficial Patch, because the other options page is indeed very crowded.

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

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Another issue is that in Always On mode the helper turns into a static crosshair and it no longer helps detect frobs. Let's mod the Frob Helper.

I'm rather your opinion that, like with the frob helper, sometimes too many options will only confuse players.

Isn't that just if you have a moveable or something behind a wall and its frob_distance is greater than the thickness of the wall? Walls don't block frobbing unfortunately, which is why you get those mapping bugs where you can frob paintings through the wall.

I actually would like to know what could be a reason that it shows a frobhelper where there's nothing to frob. This is a mystery to me.