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wow - the ceiling looks great now ! I think you should go ahead and post it on the Dark Mod thread...

Make sure you check it out again...I just tweaked the ceiling and added some more trim along the walls. If it's alright with everyone else I'll go ahead and post it on the TTLG thread. It's kinda got that Widow Moria look to it, which is alot closer to the style we're going for than my first map.

Well, we would have to see this first, but that's no real problem for now. Only thing we could need a hand in texturing, mapping (probably) and coding (has to be seen though). But nobody will force you to anything. IMO that is the only reason why Thief still has such a strong community after such a long time. LOL. You are right. Just wanted to get an overview of your style and what you did so far. The problem with ordering a story is, that we have to agree on something first. As you can imagine that caused quite a stir, because we had some ideas and some even presented a story, but it is very hard to come up with everybod can agreee upon. I guess I will make you a contributor and then we can discuss this in more detail. I don't want to talk to much about storie ideas on the public board, as this is one area where I wouldn't want to spoil anything. No problem with discussing algorithms or models, but certain things should be held back to have at least som surprises for our fans. I will wait on soime feedback from some other members. So far they were positive but it was to short a time to get a good sample. I guess in the evening I can give you a more definite answer on that. Your timezone would be a help, so we can better plan. Which area of physics? Can you also do some physics coding? That might be helpfull. It is not strictly required, just asking. We have other contacts who also have experience in D3 physics already, but of course having at least one teammeber would be preferable. I can imagine that. If I have the feeling that an algorithm is not good enough I rather rip it apart and write it new, than releasing it knowing it is not as good as it could be. That's good to hear. We have a very good team so far, and the standard is also very high. I certainly prefer to work on a professional team than with a bunch of 3771 hax0r script kiddies. Makes live much more easier.

I forgot to add: I'm a professional Maya modeler and my coding of choice is VC.NET. So.. I'm glad to hear you don't have a pressing need for either of those jobs, but given that (from what I've seen) you those are the tools most employed by this project, I'd be happy to throw in whatever help in those areas that is needed. Random environmental objects, wildlife, whatever. I can do my own texturework, too. It's not the best but it works. As for the writing: I think you're absolutely right. It cannot be left for the last minute. The writing, the worldsetting, everything... It all impacts how the rest of the work comes together. The character designs, the maps, everything. They all need to be interconnected so that it doesn't feel like there's this disconnect between the gameworld and the storyworld. The most immersive games (see: System Shock, Marathon, Thief, et al) are the ones where the story is completely inseperable from the rest of the game. And, in my opinion, those are the only games worth playing. As for examples of my work: What's a better example than a made-to-order piece? I could easily show you things I've written previously, but they wouldn't "fit" the theme of this piece. I have stories and screenplays and theater plays written, but... Those are specialized work. Tell me what you want, and how long. Characters names. Setting. Whatever. The more guidelines the better. And give me until next Wednesday - I'll have it done by then. I also need to know the style. I'm tempted to write it as a screenplay, as it would help the voiceactors and mappers pick out the tie-ins with their work. But I could just as easily write it as an expository novel or whatever the team's preference is. To answer the question of time constraints: As I mentioned before, I'm working for NASA full-time in a couple months and right now I'm just finishing up my senior year as a Physics major. So, as a result, my free time is somewhat limited. However, the way I work is such that if I were to enlist myself as a modeler, I would have to drop out of school. I work on 3D models, nonstop, until they are perfect. This would work for miscellaneous models and things of that sort, but as a primary modeler it would be completely unsustainable. The same goes for coding. However, with writing, it's much more stop-and-start for me. I can write five pages, come back hours later, and pick up again without a problem. As a result, I'm convinced that I will be able to fulfill whatever demands a writing position would require. There are no doubts in that respect. Oh, and one last note: I am a light-hearted kind of guy when I need to be, but I approach these projects the same way I approach my professional work: I take it extremely seriously. So if my tone seems somewhat stiff, that's only because I'm very excited in this project and I want to take it on professional terms.

Magic is simply a different kind of physics, when done properly. Whether it is 'real world' or not only matters if your game takes place in the 'real world'. Saying, "the arrow makes noise because of magic," is no more of a cop-out than saying, "the arrow falls to the ground because of gravity." But anyway.... You might be confusing me with somone else...I'm the guy that voted for the magical noise arrow. I don't think we need to worry about exactly how the noisemaker, mines, or robots actually *work* as long as they seem reasonably consistent with the rest of the setting.

It's "powered by Doom 3" but anyway - Thanks! That was my script. Nice to see it is appreciated. One of the small things that I contributed. And I really had to force it on TYROT. That's pretty easy to do. I have seen such tricks in the demo coder scene long before T1 used that. It is just used like a texture. Either with a 3D app, or a simple algorithm.

dear Domarius When i first watched THIEF the Dark Project intro one thing exploded in my eyes..immediately ..THE COMBINATION of different forms.. There are 3d renderings, 2d concept art, 2d animation and ACTUAL video footage. And all of them combined together almost invisible technic... That s why it was my favorite one..of ALL I wrote a long description how i made the teaser it s here.. http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...t=7994&start=20 I hope link is good.. Any further question will be answered gladly Ah yes...Those effects can be done both 2d and 3d..They are combining all art forms in perfect unity...So one frame is 3d and the other one 2d with 3d art on it.. It s hard to write you know...But after effects+photoshop+3d software ...is your answer. They used 3d max so it was 3d max... Let say victoria s morph is a lovely unity of 3d + 2d additional effects.. That s the beauty of thief.. I mean you know how much thief FAN loved the game just for those Cutscenes...first BEST

Saying it's magic is no more of a cop-out than saying it is mechanical. But knowing that it is wind-up is sufficient for our purposes. Trying to plan exactly how it works is fine if you enjoy it. But we don't need to be getting into discussions about how every internal thing should work. As long as it looks good, that's enough. If we put a broadhead arrow on it, then it should sink into any wooden surface, meaning it could be quite difficult to retrieve, especially if you don't happen to have a rope arrow. It should also do damage when it hits a creature. And if the arrow is sticking out of a wall, it points directly back in the direction of the shooter. If it bounces around it's less clear where it came from.

Key models are begun. Keeping 'em rather low poly, but still giving shape. Two different types: long, fancy and/or secure keys, and shorter, safe-type keys. Why are there two of each, you ask? Because the texture map will have two different colors. The UV map basically maps two keys, one on top, on on the bottom, so I need two different UV unwrappings for it to work. Two UVs means two models.

Bugger, sorry, here's most of my work on various things- http://img46.photobucket.com/albums/v140/god_is_my_goldfish/ (Last post, I PROMISE!)

I'm working on one here and there, but I'm quite busy today. I might have something tonight. Edit: Ok, I have a few more minutes to make some comments...The typical banner size is 468x60, which is not a lot of space. The new one by Alexius looks great but is far too busy to be used at banner size. Perhaps it could be used as a website header or something. I'm not entirely sure I like the colour scheme, which is awfully bright and red...it makes me think more of Aladdin than Thief, but that's me. I have two different versions in the works and I'll post one of them tonight for comment. I can't work on it from this computer though.

My cousin is a lawyer. I'll try to get hold of him and ask him a few questions. As long as we're not using their models I don't see any problems coming up. Especially if they are not exact replicas and are just inspired by the original, as yours was. While Thievery was indeed multiplayer it is still possible to get pretty thiefy in it. Especially when you see some of the textures they have ingame...if they're not the original textures, then by george they're great recreations.

I think this is fine enough to make TEH OFFICIAL LO6O!!!! I'll post it up on ttlg unless you object.

Actually most of the stuff you posted in there is not decided yet, it just has been discussed, but no final decision has been reached. As for moving. I think you can't move postings. You just can move an entire thread. So I would suggest that you continue with the ideas thread, where appropriate and leave this one as it is. As people already complained about having to read long postings, I guess nobody will read it either way. Except me it seems.

Building on my earlier idea of 'useable objects', here are some animations I'd like to see for the various AI to use, on a random basis. Each object has a percentage chance of activating a response in an AI that comes near. I've included suggestions about basic range and percentage chance that an AI responds. Obviously these are all nonessential, but I think they would be a hell of a lot of fun and add to the immersion factor. Some of the more humorous ones should not be used for elite guards. Several of these objects could be place on an AI's regular route, and the random factor would add the illusion of some realism to their actions. I've tried to avoid any animations that actually touch or affect the object itself to keep things simple. OBJECT --- RESPONSE Fireplace --- AI rubs hands and holds them out to the fire. Med. range, 40% chance Furnace --- As above, Med range, 20% chance Tapestry, Painting --- AI stares with hands clasped behind back, then scratches head. Short range, 10% chance Window --- AI stares with hands clasped behind back for 5 seoncds. Med range, 20% chance Chair, Sofa --- AI sits down and sighs, gets up after half a minute. Short range, 20% chance. Bowl, Pot --- AI dips finger in bowl then licks it. Short range, 10% chance. Rat --- AI 'surprise' animation, draws weapon, then puts weapon away again after a few seconds and gives 'all clear' signal (house and drunk guards only). Short range, 20% chance. Statue, Mounted Head -- same as above (drunk guards only). Short range, 10% chance. Pot, bread, cheese, etc --- AI leans over and makes audible sniffing sound. Short range, 20% chance. Grandfather clock --- AI looks at clock and says, "Three hours and no sign of dinner yet," (or other random line involving time). Short range, 10% chance. Open Book --- AI looks down at book for a few seconds, then yawns. Short range, 10% chance. Statue, holy relic, etc --- AI stops and mutters brief prayer. Med range, 10% chance. Other AI --- AI nods in their direction and gives greeting. Med range, 20% chance. Bookshelf --- AI stares with hands clasped behind back, tilts head to side (to read title). Med range, 30% chance. Bed --- AI (civilian only) lays down on bed and falls asleep. Long range, 5% chance. Mirror --- AI stares with hands clasped behind back, nods a greeting in direction of mirror. Med range, 10% chance. Security camera --- AI waves in camera's direction. Med range, 20% chance. Anyway, just some fun ideas. I tried to imagine where we could reuse some simple animations. The potential for voice sets is enormous as well. Feel free to add your own ideas to the list.

Not today, because I will get to bed early. My questions still stands. Whats up with the gui code? Considering that this is pretty easy to do, I wonder why you never sent something. I already did some basic stuff for the gui myself, so I know this is nothing that should really take that long. And it can be done easily without the actual images as a preliminary work.

First of all, good luck with this, it looks real good so far. Is it going to play like the classic thief's or like thief 3. A long time fan of t1 and 2 was disappointed with thief 3 but then again, it was a different developer.

I don't like the loot pickups, its too techno. We need something simpler than that. THe T1/2 sound was perfect of course, and everyone loved it, so a slight variation on that will be fine, or just plain copy it. The sound is not copyrighted, as long as we create our own version of it. Love the mansion music box though, reminds me very much of Zelda. THe rest of the SFX are great also.

WOOHOO! I CAN POST AGAIN! lol, anyway...I have a few wallpaper textures of my own to contribute. None of them are quite as Thiefy as Blackthief's, but I'm sure they'll have their place in the game somewhere. This one turned out great ingame, but alas...it's sort of a funky hell of an ugly wallpaper. Could fit for bathrooms, though. This one is more intheme, but it looks more like a carpet than a wallpaper. They're not bad, but I like the ones posted above a helluva lot better. So far I have about 27 textures from various sources ingame with about 5 or 6 of them refusing to show up properly. Originally I thought tweaking the color levels confused the editor, but after some tweaked textures showed up I'm starting to believe it has more to do with either the directory structure or just plain randomness . Since some of the default Id textures refused to show up even before I started modding it's hard to say. Edit: Once again I have to bring up how much better it is to do normalmaps by hand... In the end it makes it far cleaner and looks a good deal better. It's not that hard to do either, I've never done any texturework before I started this project so I'm sure some of you photoshop pros won't have any problems at all.

yea i stretched that just for fun..but look at it as a concept art:) i mean..some real high/long chandaliers would be spectacular..

All the Thief games use dynamic ambience that blends from one area to another. You have a church with a choir ambience, you walk into a hallway that leads to the crypt and you get a mix of choir and scarey ambience, and when you enter the crypt, you get scarey ambience. I think the mix is done specifically, with an intermediate zone that says "play this AND this as well". But of course, you can hear the ambience from one zone playing over the current one, if you are close enough to it. I think this freedom of re-usability should be maintained. If someone wants to use your ambience where there is NO background hum around, well, I don't think it's so good. Why not make the hum and the music seperate files, and let the author play them both in the level? WILL there be a noticible difference when jumping from 96 to 160? Maybe if you're an audio technician. I used to fiddle with sounds a bit and I don't think I'd notice the difference even if they were overlayed, as long as they both sounded "good" quality. (Whereas I noticed that in older games, I would get used to the 11khz sound quality and think it sounded "good" and then hear something else, like a CD play, and THEN I'd notice the difference when it was overlayed) I'd be keeping the sounds seperate at any cost, just so people can re-use your media. FM authors coming up with interesting uses for the existing T2 media, including ambience, always surprised me. One particular ambience, that I thought suited a deep forest, became freaky and scarey in another mission (cause of the associated visuals of course). (Sorry, usually I edit down my ramblings...)

We already decided long ago noismakers are not re-usable.

HE would have as many fireworks with him as noisemaker arrows. There's no difference. Just as long as it's clear that fireworks are the best solution to the problem, but we're going with nosiemaker arrows

Just wanted to post here how bloody good I think this looks. Omega, let me know if you need any more sketches.

We need the following boards: A general discussion board Design issues Development related discussions (not programing but in general) Programming (general) AI Sound (programming) Soundeffects (for the soundengineers) Special Effects (Water, particle etc.) Art (Textures, images, etc.) Level creation/Plot/Objectives (for the level designers) Modelling (Characters) We DON't need a seperate Lightgem board. It's either art or programming. What would be a good idea is to have a read-only report board. This should contain: Design decisions (no discussions only the conclusions from the design discussions when we agree on something), Allowed tools (or list of tools so we know what is available), A list of available services (like FTP, Webpage, IRC information, CVS server information, etc.). This board can also get links to concept Art for easy reference as soon as we agreed on something and we don't want to change it anymore. So for example, if we agree on a final image for the lightgem, we should post it there so everybody can see it and can easily find it. Another read-only board would be good as announcment board: This should include who is working on what, if a new release has been released, weekly(?) project progress, new members and other stuff which is not open for discussion.