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I'm highly enjoying Morrowind at the moment, I'm like exploring. And the quests are interesting. Well, I don't know what games you throught good turned out bad. AoE III looked bad with its 3D, and we already knew there are fewer nations, it is the Colonial Time, and GUI was shown somewhere, and low-detail units. These may be just bits, but I think if such bits are made bad, the whole game is bad - that is why I never play games with bad graphics - if people took care of their look, they'll take care of the game, I don't remember myself being wrong. Then - Quake IV - you knew perfectly well it is made by Raven, and on DooM 3 engine, and Quake is pretty much the same as DooM, meaning the probability of it being DooM 3 clone is pretty high. What else? Well, DooM 3 itself - too much time passed, they can't make the game identical to the former versions - DooM 2 was a clone of DooM already, so people harping on DooM 3 in that direction are just being stupid. As for me, IMHO DooM 3 was great, believe me or not, but it's my favorite game in the last years. Then, Serious Sam II? Personaly, it is exactly what it should have been. The same fun, stupid, funny arcade shooter in which the developers showed much more fantasy then in other games when one is a copy of the other. F. E. A. R.? With such piar, I was 100% sure that this game you play and forget. Yeah, it may be fun, but it's unreplayable, and there is nothing good in there except fights. As for Oblivion and HoMaM. Well, from what I heard Oblivion improved the worst things of Morrowind. Fight system in Morrowind was often boring because it was all chance-to-hit. And also in Morrowind if you have gotten a lot of stuff and have not enough strength to heave it, in Morr you had to travel back to a trading post, in Oblivion you can press a few buttons and be where you need to be. Anyway, there are also horses - you can't fight but you can ride on them. As for HoMaM V - if before I was somewhat suspicious, after I played the alpha I became fully confident. No questions here, I just go and buy the full game when it comes out.

That's exactly how I felt as I read them. I felt as if I could have been reading a book that was written within the last 10 years at some points.

Will do Dram, it looks pretty nifty. Good news, I just got my DSL connection working! After dial up for years, at last, its like a dream come true...

I will reserve my judgment until I can have a look at the game. I have seen enough games, the last few years, that were supposed to be "the best" whatever, and when they came out they sucked big time.

I read them years ago, yes they will probably seem a bit dated but they are good stuff. I kind of outgrew Asimov a few years back but I still have a ton of respect for the guy, a proud athiest to his last breath, a champion of the popularization of science, and an outspoken critic of creationists, astrologers, and similar muddle-headed baboons. Just keep in mind the guy started writing during sci-fi's "Golden Age" of the 30s to the 50s, so he doesnt use profanity, never mentions sex, etc. His story "Nightfall", about a planetary system in a solar system with 6 suns, is a masterpiece. For the inhabitants of one of the planets, night only comes every 2000 years or something like that, when it does it destroys their civilization over and over, the story is about one group of thinkers who try to stave off the end. It can be read as an allegory for education versus mysticism, or just read as a great story.

I didn't mention aliens, and I don't group them in with this other nonsense. However, whether they exist or not somewhere in the universe, and whether they abduct people from ther beds to do experiments on them are different matters. It's no coincedence that the huge jump in UFO sitings happened last century at exactly the same time the US and Soviet govenments had started secret military bases to develop new weaponry, aircraft and spacecraft Yes, it is. Unless that person has something other than their little anecdote about it, then it is to be considered complete crap. There's a massive difference between what such a person thought they experienced, and what they actually experienced. The problem being that their feeble anecdote always consists entirely of the former. I have to say, I didn't realise we had so many new-age crackpots on the team. At least sparhawk is a fellow arch-skeptic.

I just finished Harry Potter Volume 6 and I'm really frustrated how this ends. I don't want to spoil it for you, in case you haven't read it yet and planned to do it, so I don't want to say to much. But I almost wish I hadn't read it. Well, I can understand why this had to happen, but still ... it's a really frustrating ending. I hope that Rowling will at least finish the last part soon.

Thief did get old, even with some great FMs out I lost interest last year or so. Its going to be really cool to see all the differenent spins TDM give rise to.

That are good points for Snape. But Hagrid is carrying the dead body to the funeral. Harry and a lot of other people also found the body below the tower with broken limbs. Dumbledore was not in a condition to defend himself on the tower and he had no wand when he crashed down, though I don't really understand this. It seems that this isnot consistent, because apparently some tricks need a wand while others are not. I'm not entirely sure why the wand has to be used at all. But you could be right, that the drink could somehow have created a split personality of Dumebledore where Snape killed the one and the other may survive. I also found the funeral rather strange and had the impression that this gives some hope yet. But Dumbledores portrait also appeared in the office. It could be that McGonagal put it there, but the phrasing did not indicate this. To me it read as if it just appeared there, and I had the impression that it did this on it's own. Which of course leaves the question open, when this happens. Does it mean a directorr of Hogwarts has to die? Or does it also appear when he resigns? I guess the portrait comes with the office though, so once you are a director of Hogwarts, your portrait will appear when the condition is met. I don't think that Dumbledore had a Horcrux, because it would mean that Dumbledore would have to kill just for that purpose, which he despises, so I guess we can rule this out. There may be other ways though. From the plot perspective it makes sense and was even explained in the book. Dumbledore was the last adult help of Harry and he could rely a lot of him. He had to go away, for Harry to become fully mature and fulfill his destiny. I guess this is the age old story about the parents releasing his child finally into adulthood to stand on his own. What I also wondered about is this Unbreakable Vow that Snape took in the beginning. He knew what the task of Draco was, so taking on this vow, he knew from the start that he either had to let Draco kill Dumbledore, or kill him himself. Of course if Dumbledore told Snape to do EVERYTHING to keep his double role hidden, including killing him if it is neccessary, then he could have done this and he had to, which was made pretty clear.

Those last 2 posts' ideas are amazing. I would love to be a rat and scurry though a difference engine, and the clockwork scouting orb sounds cool! Why won't TDM have scouting orbs, TII style, by default? I read somewhere you're not doing them.

Well, you are right it is a kids book. So I have to read it, because I need to know what my kids read. Seriously, I always loved Fantasy, and HP is a pretty good fantasy. If it were not for my wife, I probably would never have picked it up, because I always thought it a kids book. In the meantime I have read each of it several times. But speaking of kids books. Last time I started to reread it from the first volumen and I was pretty shocked this time. I read a book about childmisstreatment from a guy named Dave Pelzer who experienced that himself http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846. This book was really shocking, especially because I have three kids myself, and seeing my kids, it always reminded me how they treated him. Well, when I started to read the firt part of HP this time, it instantly invoked the memory of this book, because the pattern is exactly the same. It spoiled the experience quite lot, even though it was months ago when I read the other book.

I was quite disappointed with the 6th book. It was twice the size of the earlier novels but with half of the plot. Everything happened in the last hundred pages or so. Anyway, I'm sure the ending sets up a big twist in the next book where he returns. Cue loads of tearful kiddies and a spin off series.

I saw a rat here in Philthy last summer, no frigging lie, a foot long NOT including the tail, which looked more like a naked monkeys tail.

Dram, I thought I had posted this last night but I guess it got lost. Ive been thinking about that airship map, with the two ships in combat and the Thief has to sneak from one across to another. Question for you, lets say the Thief has made it across and is settling down into a new hiding spot below decks. Would it be possible to have a visiport in the form of a porthole or a window through which the Thief could watch the first ship going down in flames? It would not have to be a complete model, just a decent rez graphic. It would be a nice cinematic effect methinks.

radley, i would respond, but i just realized your last response did my job for me. thanks!

I know, I know, but for some reason the cloaking devices pushed me over the top. The mutant monkeys were adumb idea but I thought the great outdoor environments and the nifty tools/weapons would make up for that. But inviso-monkey men? Could they think of nothing else? Vadrosaul, I will finish it, probably on G-mode just for the last few scenes.

Hmm, PC gamer gave only 70%... The game is developed by Raven, my would-be favorite company (SotSR creators). But their recent games dissapoint me. I hope Quake will have all and more than DooM 3 had. Loads of weapons. There were, ahem, 20 weapons in Turok 2. So many in Quake? Favorite weapon - shotgun - shame. I love shotguns, but I would also wish to see something less instant. A plasma rifle in Quake IV, anyone? Well, I don't think F. E. A. R. has a lot of AI. Scripts, rather. Storyline, eh? I don't think a game like Quake will have a storyline ever... Or F. E. A. R. Since when moss arrow is a weapon? I though it was a device. I never managed to kill anyone with it. I didn't find Quake II enemies strong... 10/10 - last time I saw this with Half-Life 2... To Macsen - I think I'll like TDM more than Quake IV. I never was a fan of Quake anyway. Besides, Quake is just a shooter for fun, Thief is more complicated...

It's been a while since I last edited in Thief 2, but I think there were particle effects that you could make in the editor. In any case will there be something similar packaged with your tools or will we need a Third Party editor to make them?

I don't understand that last sentence. Could you be more specific?

I didnt think that the damage was from water inhalation, that would make sense. I am used to the life meter being the last few breaths, not permanent damage from the lack of it.

All it does AFAIK is make your weapon bob and drift a little when you are sitting around in the game. Its just to add a touch of realism I think, doesnt impact gameplay. The "crabs" are the smallest of the TriGens. WHen you get to the end, there are at least two other kinds, one carrys an assault rifle like the mercs and the others are these rocket firing monstrosities that can take a shit load of damage. The big ones are stupid and clumsy though, I killed a few with the old Thief trick that used to wipe out the Mechanist tanks. Hide halfway around a corner in a doorway and let the tank start shooting, the rocket hits the wall and damages only the tank itself. I got two more by running along the edge of a cliff, they tried to follow my path and slipped off the edge into the water. I thought the mutants were a little stupid but overall they were still pretty fun to play against. The Tanks will knock stuff out of their way if its blocking them, last night two Tanks and a crab were tangled up in a group and the Tank whacked the Crab halfway across the field to get it out of his way.

I certanly won't care what engine the game uses as long as it's drawn good, and I personaly put the line between bad graphics and good graphics on Quake III and Heretic II - everithing higher is great to me, everything lower is bad, and DooM III is way ahead - a lot of people say HL2 looks better, but I can't agree with that. If the game is colorful, with DooM III shadows and bamp and stuff it would terrific quality. You say game looks bad because of new engines higher than it. If we take old games doom, heretic, war2, heroes1 - they are painful to look at. THe graphics is pixelated and stuff. Thief, Q3, Heretic II are not painful to look at at all, but they look worse than todays engines. Personaly, the farcry and d3 don't look too different to me. They are on the same level. And just because q4 will have a slightly better shadow won't make me thing the games is outdated. If a game can last only as long as it's engine is the best, it's not a game. Just some rubbish to play a while and throw into the trash can a month later. I'm glad you chose d3e. It's a great engine, and outdated or not, the game will look GREAT.

EDIT: Don't bother reading this entire thread if you don't care to... I posted a thread in Documentation that explains this much better. The only really relevant part is the last post on adding sounds to SoundProp Brief note: It looks like D3 already has a system in place for playing different footstep sounds based on the material you're walking on. Here's the code in idActor void idActor::PlayFootStepSound( void ) { const char *sound = NULL; const idMaterial *material; if ( !GetPhysics()->HasGroundContacts() ) { return; } // start footstep sound based on material type material = GetPhysics()->GetContact( 0 ).material; if ( material != NULL ) { sound = spawnArgs.GetString( lva( "snd_footstep_%s", gameLocal.sufaceTypeNames[ material->GetSurfaceType() ] ) ); } if ( *sound == '\0' ) { sound = spawnArgs.GetString( "snd_footstep" ); } if ( *sound != '\0' ) { StartSoundShader( declManager->FindSound( sound ), SND_CHANNEL_BODY, 0, false, NULL ); PropSoundDirect( static_cast<const char *>( localSound ), true, false ); } } In game_local.h: static const char * sufaceTypeNames[ MAX_SURFACE_TYPES ]; // text names for surface types In game_local.cpp: const char *idGameLocal::sufaceTypeNames[ MAX_SURFACE_TYPES ] = { "none", "metal", "stone", "flesh", "wood", "cardboard", "liquid", "glass", "plastic", "ricochet", "surftype10", "surftype11", "surftype12", "surftype13", "surftype14", "surftype15" }; Conclusion: When a footstep happens, D3 checks the material of the ground. Several materials are already defined, including metal, stone, wood, liquid, glass, etc... However, D3 did not really record sounds for different materials and implement this. If you look in player.def, there is only one "snd_footstep" and it is linked to "player_sounds_footstep" (the default footstep sound). This is a link to the soundshader, and you can see the actual soundshader files that get played in player.sndshd: player.sndshd So while it looks like there are sounds recorded, and a soundshader defined for players stepping on dirt, there is no "snd_footstep_dirt" in the player.def, so this will never be called. Stay tuned for the next post in this thread where I'll try and guess how we actually make use of this.

I believe that artistic style and correct use of an engine is more important than just getting any engine as long as its the latest spiffy one. For instance, I played System Shock 2 (Dark Engine), and Undying (1st Unreal engine) last year for the first time, and those 2 immersed me more than the other titles newly released that year. Of course that may be due to the great gameplay and stories inherent in both

Hey there. Been following this project for a while, and I must say I wait eagerly to see it complete. Although I have browsed thru older topics and even read some of 'em, I couldn't find one where this theme had been fully discussed. If there is, I may have missed it . Well, here I go anyway (sorry for the long post): I think that there should be more than one choice for a damaging melee weapon (aprat from the blackjack, which MUST be permanent, if not this wouldn't be Thief related anymore!) that the player can choose to buy or just pick from the start depending of the mission and the objectives you have. It would help a lot to mission balance. I've already got some ideas and the different scenarios to make an example: 1.- Dagger (don't flame me for this one!!!): let's say you have a mission where you need to sneak inside of a very fortified zone, like your typical Thief mission. A dagger is easyr to carry and is capable of killing foes cleanly and quickly. But it's pretty useless against armored foes. It would be useful only in places where you expect less or weaker resistance, or if one of your main goals is to stealthily get rid of some character that's inside the complex for some specific reason. For that last one, a sword would be less-than-ideal. 2.- Sword: but then there's a mission where you somewhere you know there'll be heavier resistance, call it armored guards, better trained swordsmen... or maybe you go into a pagan forest or a cave inhabited by dangerous animal species. A dagger wouldn't cut it, but a sword would be much more effective, because of its longer range of attack and superior damage dealing. Let's not even talk about blackjack here! I found pretty stupid the fact that you could just go and blackjack a giant two-legged, gas-belching lizard with an enormous and thick cranium. 3.- Small mace: then come the zombies... they feel no pain, they won't die from bleeding wounds, won't stay put for long after they fall down. That makes the dagger a no-goer, and makes the sword much less useful. You should have some means to deal with the undead face-to-face. To crush their rotten bones and rend them harmless. Can you spell "mace"? But a mace is a mace, it's heavy and slow. Zombies are slow too, so no big deal. But most guards and pretty much all of the critters aren't that slow, or aren't slow at all. So a mace could be evaded easily and lose a lot of potencial. Of course that Thief has always been about stealth and stuff. But shit happens. You do run out of fire arrows to blow up incoming zombies. You can accidentally trigger a trap that sets off an alarm and sends five or six guards after you. You can accidentaly wake up a whole nest o' burricks. You can't always rely on stealth to survive. I believe most thieves don't have a magic "Quickload button" to resort to in this cases (well, we have one... but that's no excuse! ). And a master thief always plans ahead for a mission (even if you can't always predict what you'll find). So I believe it makes sense from a realistic point of view... Apart from this: will we be able to see our body? I really liked that about TDS. I think that it's pretty dull when in a game you look down and you don't see yourself. It's like "Yay! Looka t me! I'm a floating hand holding a sword!". At this point of gaming history, it's something so basic I wished that more game devs had thought of. If you made it down to here, thanks for reading!