Renzatic's Textures

[Renzatic]

Yup, sure is. Though without a shadow or collision model, unfortunately. Right now, I've put things on hold while I've dealt with some nasty problems that have arisen in my life recently (nothing too horrible, but it hasn't been fun in the least). The good news i it looks like I'll be getting some more time here soon, and I'll probably pick up my map where I last left off.

 

In the meantime, I'll try to upload the textures and models I've (mostly) finished for people to play with. I'm gonna see if I can share a link via Dropbox. If I can't, I can send the 100 meg Doom 3 ready files to someone who can host it for me. Or if you really want to go extreme, the 3.5 gig of original PSD files and multiple models if anyone wants them for some strange reason.

[Renzatic]

Update!

 

Here you go: http://www.sendspace.com/file/2rrkaz

 

FYI, I realized I forgot to take red_ivy out of the archive. That's actually a texture from one of Method's D3 maps I aped so I could experiment with alpha mask materials. I don't think accidentally including it will be a problem since this shouldn't spread beyond the forum here. But if you want to send the stuff off to friends and family, remove that one texture before you do.

 

And yes, things are kinda sloppy and there are alot of improvements that need to be made here, which I intend on doing when I finally get back around to it. For now though, it's great for archiving and playing around with. After all, there's no reason for me to just sit on them while I'm off doing other things.

[greebo]

Thanks a lot Renzatic! This is quite a package to traverse - maybe we can recruit somebody to go through that and prepare it for SVN. I'd like to do that myself but if I do that our own map will come to a grinding halt.

[Renzatic]

Eh, you don't have go through all that. I'll get it all together myself at some point, fixed up, resized, and everything. For now, just consider it a collection of halfway decent stuff you can cull from and tweak for your own maps.

 

Oh, and I forgot to add one thing: the much lauded and frequently spoken of table.

[Springheel]

Oh, and I forgot to add one thing: the much lauded and frequently spoken of table.

 

Thanks! Downloading now.

[Renzatic]

Bonus texture time:

 

A Square Door

 

I was cleaning out the project files, getting rid of stuff that didn't quite pan out. This one might actually be of use to someone, so I figured I'd upload it for everyone to try out.

 

Also, what about some feedback? Now that you've all got a goodly chunk of my stuff, you got any criticisms or suggestions to throw my way?

[Baddcog]

I was actually waiting for Spring to get it in game

 

I'll take a look when I get a chance, getting stuff in game takes a bit of work and I figure there's no sense in several people doing the same work.

Probably easier to get comments from everyone if we had pics posted here ya know, we're all busy. It'll take awhile if we have to do the work to get it in game.

[Springheel]

I was actually waiting for Spring to get it in game

 

If you're talking about the table, it's already there. I haven't had time to look at the texture pack, however.

[Renzatic]

Good point. I've probably deleted all the previous pics to make room for other stuff since. Cept for the door, you've all already seen these before, but here goes...

 

The Hallway (map included in the zip file)

The Table (in Modo)

The New Door This didn't fit in well with the rest of my theme, but it still might be useful to someone somewhere.

 

Cept for being overly large, I know the textures are probably alright. It's the models I'm most worried about, since I'm still a little green at doing ingame stuff.

 

I'll see about getting the textures ingame myself. It's just a few folders and a material file after all. Wouldn't take me more than half an hour. Just one question, since I'm designing this as a theme, I'd like to keep them grouped together as such. Could I add them in under their own folder, or mix them in with the rest of the TDM textures?

[Springheel]

Just one question, since I'm designing this as a theme, I'd like to keep them grouped together as such. Could I add them in under their own folder, or mix them in with the rest of the TDM textures?

 

For consistency they should go with the rest of the textures, but you could name them "[name]_set01_mossy" or something so it's clear they're a set.

[Renzatic]

Alright. I can do that. I'll have them ready by this weekend.

 

Also, should I include the high res in a separate folder, or just the shrunk-down TDM ready textures by themselves?

[Tels]

Alright. I can do that. I'll have them ready by this weekend.

 

Also, should I include the high res in a separate folder, or just the shrunk-down TDM ready textures by themselves?

 

Hires, too please, they surely come in handy whenever we make a TDM hires mod (my screenresolution is already a lot greater than 1024x1024 textures

[Renzatic]

One quick question on the naming convention. We'll use my plaster wall for an example here. It's plaster, rotting, tiles in one direction, and is a beigeish brown (or more of an off mocha light caramel if you want to get fancy). So if I'm following the naming scheme correctly, the diffuse should be called wall_sh_plaster_rot_brown_001_tiling_1d.DDS. Sound about right?

 

And my previous textures that started this thread are already packed and sorted, right? If not, it's no problem adding them to the mix.

 

edit: the current state of things. I left all the door and window textures out, since they were just placeholders til I got their models done (though I should go ahead and add the square window back in).

 

[Renzatic]

On another note altogether, I've had this idea on how to make mapping a little easier and potentially allow for alot more detail. I think I might've mentioned it way back in the day, but no one really knew back then. Things might be different now, so I'll try to toss it out again and see what answer I get.

 

I'm sure you all remember that you can do portals in Doom 3 much like the portals in Prey. Well, I had this idea where basically you can separate interiors and exteriors by using this instead of designing your buildings completely. In my mind, it'd be easier to work out, easier to portalize, and potentially let you get a bit more crazy with the geometry. You could make buildings with highly ornate facades that are really nothing more than blocks with static meshes hanging off them, yet still look like they're perfectly detailed inside and out. If it's done well, your average player wouldn't be able to tell that the room he's looking in at from the street is actually halfway across the map.

 

The only downside I can think of would be sound propagation. Beyond that, this could allow for far more detailed streets and exteriors, done more quickly, and all without sacrificing much on the performance front.

 

What do you think? Good idea...or not?

[Tels]

About portals: A visportal is already a portal, except that the geometry is placed next to each other in the map. I don't see how using "real" portals would improve things. The engine does not care whether the room you look into is next to the portal or acress the map - it has to be rendered the same way (like sound propagating or light reaching in/out).

 

All the rave about "Portal" was that the portals teleported you to some other place - but that is not that difficult (except if your engine lacks a bit basic support for it and you don't have the source code - then it gets tricky).

[Renzatic]

The geometry of the building itself is where using a Prey style portal would have an advantage over regular portals. Think of a cube brush with a door frame prefab placed flush against the face vs. splitting the cube to make geometry for the doorway, the interior, ect. Each polygon you save can be put to good use elsewhere.

 

To get more indepth, think of designing a super detailed building in Lightwave. Now designing it as a block, with your only concern being the outside details allows for more freedom in alot of different ways. First off, you can use your geometry more efficiently when you're not worried about what's on the other side of a wall. Secondly, you can simply design a bunch of different buildings in LW, and drop a ton in a row to make a city street. You don't have to worry about going step by step for each building you plan on being traversable.

 

And the interiors? The exact same case as the exteriors. You have much more play with your geometry, and you don't have to worry about making cuts and changes that could effect your exterior geometry in unforseen ways. It allows for more much give, cuts down on the variables, should be a bit easier to portalize, and allows you to design your maps that much more quickly.

 

Doesn't matter if you're using BSP or exported geometry. If it's done right, you'll end up with cleaner, more detailed maps.

 

Granted, there are probably some negatives I'm not seeing here, and it obviously wouldn't work in all situations. But still, there are advantages to it that are worth looking into in my opinion.

 

edit: another plus I just thought of. It could allow you to change portions of your map far more easily than it otherwise would. Want to add another room to your map, or tweak your street just a little bit? Simply because you're dealing with wholes, instead of small interlocking pieces, you have less geometry to deal with, less divisions and potential texture alignment issues...in short, it'd be comparative cake to do.

[greebo]

One quick question on the naming convention. We'll use my plaster wall for an example here. It's plaster, rotting, tiles in one direction, and is a beigeish brown (or more of an off mocha light caramel if you want to get fancy). So if I'm following the naming scheme correctly, the diffuse should be called wall_sh_plaster_rot_brown_001_tiling_1d.DDS. Sound about right?

Were you following the naming scheme on the wiki?

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=How_to_add_Textures_to_The_Dark_Mod

 

I think we got rid of "floor" and "wall" in shader names, because you might never know how mappers are using them.

[Baddcog]

I also don't see a reason for the 1d, it's already listed as 001, not really sure what the sh stands for either. Just more clutter I think.

 

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Not really sure how the prey portals work exactly, do you just frob the closed door and get transported to the new inside across the map like Morrowind?

 

If so I'd say it wouldn't be well accepted at all, might also cause major issues with AI. Players really like the fact that everything is wysiwyg in Thief. Even the occasional portals in T3 to split up levels were highly frowned apon. The fact that you could run away from guards, run through one (basically one foot away in a hall) and the 5 guards on your tail were just gone. But if you went back an hour later they are still there and pissed off.

 

Even if it's easily transversable back and forth I really don't see the point. When a map is fully optimized it really should be a simple blocky bit of worldspawn. The only details that would break up the world spawn are doorways, sunken or open windows. Even more basic than a T2 map. Splits in textures would also cause more polys, but same for models.

 

But all the details, whether models or func_statics have no effect on the base terrain itself and don't add any complexity at all. They also have no effect on visportals.

 

Worldspawn also gives you an opportunity to enclose spaces to visportal better. If you have a big street with a bunch of house models you'd have to put huge visportals across the whole street to optimize.

The problem with huge portals is they never close, it's impossible to get to spots where you can't see through them, thus making them worthless.

 

I also find it harder to build terrain in a 3d program than in most editors. Editors are designed specifically for that task.

[Renzatic]

I think we got rid of "floor" and "wall" in shader names, because you might never know how mappers are using them.

 

I called them as such because of this entry on the wiki:

 

"Object Type descriptor first (mostly for very specific-use textures) - it's a window, a door, a chest..."

 

...which seemed to make perfect sense until I got to the folder structuring and saw there were no entries for walls, floors, ect. From the way things look like they're set up, I should just nix it entirely and start with wood_ or plaster_, right?

 

I also don't see a reason for the 1d, it's already listed as 001, not really sure what the sh stands for either. Just more clutter I think.

 

tiling_1d marks a texture that only tiles in one direction, right? And the _sh stands for Swamp House, which is my little theme I'm building all my textures and models around. I'll probably just end up taking it out altogether and organize everything along with the rest of the TDM textures.

 

Not really sure how the prey portals work exactly, do you just frob the closed door and get transported to the new inside across the map like Morrowind?

 

No, not at all. If they worked like that, I wouldn't have bothered bringing it up. Long story short, if they're set up properly, it'd seem like you're playing through a completely seamless map instead of one that's been partitioned.

 

My only concern was sound propagation, and now that you've mentioned it, wondering if the AI would cross the threshold. But according to Tels, the engine should see them as regular visportals, so this shouldn't be a problem.

 

I'm gonna give it a try and see how it works. I still think they're worth experimenting with.

[greebo]

I called them as such because of this entry on the wiki:

 

"Object Type descriptor first (mostly for very specific-use textures) - it's a window, a door, a chest..."

 

...which seemed to make perfect sense until I got to the folder structuring and saw there were no entries for walls, floors, ect. From the way things look like they're set up, I should just nix it entirely and start with wood_ or plaster_, right?

Yeah, this "object descriptor" is meant for really specific textures, like "windowframes" or "lockbox" which really can't be used for anything else. Just starting with "wood_" is fine.

 

tiling_1d marks a texture that only tiles in one direction, right? And the _sh stands for Swamp House, which is my little theme I'm building all my textures and models around. I'll probably just end up taking it out altogether and organize everything along with the rest of the TDM textures.

The tiling_1d is fine, it should be there. Just take a look at the other tiling_1d samples in the material files - there is the tiling_1d suffix for the filenames and the tiling_1d/ folder in the shader name. (This is due to the 5 folder limit of DDS files, otherwise we would have put the files in a tiling_1d folder as well.)

[Renzatic]

Okay, I think I just about got it. Thanks.

 

I've already gone through most of the texture packs inside TDM, checking for any repeats or any naming conflicts. So far, everything looks good. You already had one texture from the catacombs set in there, so I'll go ahead and add the rest. Altogether, you have about 12 textures coming your way, the base textures from my hallway, and all the textures from the aforementioned catacombs (except for the hanging moss, once again, that's one of Method's).

 

Right now they're sorted and tidied up in their appropriate folders. All I have left is writing the material files, then I'll post it all up here for you all to doublecheck.

 

edit: another question. Do you all want me to pack them so that you have one .pk4 per material like you have it in the mod, or just one big .pk4?

[greebo]

You can just upload a ZIP package somewhere, and I'll take care of uploading them to SVN when I'm at work.

[Renzatic]

TDM Ready Textures, with the high res textures separated under _hires for your convenience.

 

I doublechecked most everything, but since this is my virgin go at the new texture structure, I'm sure it'd be in your best interest to doublecheck everything yourself.

 

edit: Hey, I just found an error! In the tdm_nature_dirt mtr file, take the _1d off the diffuse. Everything else checks out.

[Springheel]

Great, thanks Ren.

[Tels]

Thanx, renzatic, that will come in handy, and it seems it made it just for v1.01