TDM - Living Mod

[aidakeeley]

As maybe I have mentioned, outside of the "adventure" genre, I don't really have whole lot of wide ranging interest in any other games beside Thief (& a very few other exceptions).

 

So, what I'm wondering having seen the ghosts Springheel created (WIP), and, in general, anticipating all the potential I can imagine and do see documented as "up and coming" for 1.01...

 

What other "Mods" (for/inspired-by what other games) have ever been so well done and so alive that they afforded such a "living" and lasting expandability? Has there ever been one like this? On the one hand -- there are some pretty huge fanbases out there for this and that FPS -- I would expect there has to have been. But on the other -- that of the realization that Thief and, by correlation, its fanbase are <<insert "elite"-ist adjective here>> -- I think maybe not.

 

Sort of a loaded (and fawning) question, I know, but I really just think this community control is quite revolutionary and limitless. You have seized the means of production.

[STiFU]

Probably rather somthing for the Off-Topic forums... But here we go.

 

Not really a Mod, but at least it started out indie: Penumbra. Great game! I don't know if it has a huge fanbase/community, but you can sure as hell consider me a fan!!

[demagogue]

A lot of games have pretty cool fanbases and mods.

I have the most affinity for Thief & Dark Mod of course...

 

But others I like are community/mods for Tomb Raider, some HL2 ones, Deadly Rooms of Death, Steel Panthers & Op Art of War 3 (& wargames generally), MSFS X, IL-2, Flight Gear, ShipSim, Orbiter, Track Mania (& sims generally), Mount & Blade, Oblivion, Fallout, AGS adventure games, Knytt Stories, some Retro-Remakes, homemade games (Nifflas, Cactus Milk, etc)... These are a few that come to mind right off.

[Ladro]

 

Not really a Mod, but at least it started out indie: Penumbra. Great game! I don't know if it has a huge fanbase/community, but you can sure as hell consider me a fan!!

 

Me too I really like Penumbra series. It's a pure indy game made with 2 euros and an immense amount of passion by 2 guy from Sweden, really cool effort and result. Not a perfect game, of course, but with a lot of influence from Looking glass games, IMHO.

 

Their next upcoming game it's really interesting too. This is their dev blog, very interesting ideas e explanation about original gaming in general, highly suggest:

 

http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/

[Ishtvan]

Yeah, I like Penumbra a lot as well. I wish we could steal their procedural sound generator for TDM, too.

[Serpentine]

TA Spring, tho not really a mod, its a fan project and has built up a great community of modders and players - did quite a bit of texture and UI work with them, great bunch.

 

Project Reality, Just an outstanding effort, the work and detail that goes into the mod is quite amazing.

 

Red Orchestra, what used to be a mod and is now a full retail game, the quality when it was a mod was quite amazing, tho the gameplay does not suit many people it is a really good showing of what a good community project can do.

[STiFU]

I simply loved the objectinteraction in Penumbra with that tiny handy icon showing up... That's also why I liked to hear the news about the slow-door-opening-by-mouse for TDM so much. Maybe that feature could eventually be generalized to all movers, like drawers et cetera. I find myself fiddling to open the right drawer quite often, so that could definitely do with some tweaking...

[Ladro]

I simply loved the objectinteraction in Penumbra with that tiny handy icon showing up... That's also why I liked to hear the news about the slow-door-opening-by-mouse for TDM so much. Maybe that feature could eventually be generalized to all movers, like drawers et cetera. I find myself fiddling to open the right drawer quite often, so that could definitely do with some tweaking...

 

I agree. It would be an outstanding feature for TDM, a great physical intercation like in Penumbra.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Ladro

[HMart]

I agree. It would be an outstanding feature for TDM, a great physical intercation like in Penumbra.

 

 

Not gona happen before the physics engine in idtech 4 (Doom3 engine) is completely changed by a better one like Bullet or Newton (Penumbra used Newton).

[STiFU]

We are just talking about opening drawers and doors by mouse here, which definitely is possible, at least with doors. Ishtvan can prove it. Other object interactions should basically be kept the way they are, besides some minor tweaks, like getting rid of the pick-up issues with junk-objects.

[Tels]

We are just talking about opening drawers and doors by mouse here, which definitely is possible, at least with doors. Ishtvan can prove it. Other object interactions should basically be kept the way they are, besides some minor tweaks, like getting rid of the pick-up issues with junk-objects.

 

The problem in TDM is that doors are simple movers, not real simulated physic objects with mass and impulse. That means two spoons will a stop a door dead one and other issues (like an arrow stuck in a doorframe will block the door, too).

[demagogue]

We have a thread on Penumbra stuff (I think in the off-topic forum, or maybe here?) where all this was talked about and figured out before if you want to look it up.

 

I would personally love Newton physics in Dark Mod and value it more than other people might, but even I still have to grant it's a ton of work with unclear benefits. My secret hope is that some other team gets that level of physics into Doom3 when it goes open source for their own thing, and that it's much less difficult to integrate into TDM (compared to doing it from scratch).

 

But anyway I'd also love TDM to have horses, multiplayer, megatextures, soft-shadows, a few Mirror's Edge moves, a stand-alone version, campaign functionality, etc, etc, etc...

 

Funny that the conversation centered on Penumbra.

I was hoping to hear about what other modding communities people liked.

 

Edit: Looking back to the original question, though, I see it's more interested in what makes Dark Modding (and Thief modding) special that it's so expansive and alive.

One thing is because FMs themselves are so story-centric, so they don't get ossified by same-old gameplay or puzzle tropes like other games/communities. Also, for related reasons, new assets and tweaks can really add value to the game/setting/story, while in other games they just tweak the gameplay/puzzles but don't really revive it. So that keeps people contributing to the base game as well. Some other games have parts of this, like the RPG mods which have stories, but they still get bogged down I think. And it's a personality thing too. There are people that are really into Multiplayer FPS gaming and can always like playing the (good) maps, and people that will always like Thief/Dark Mod FMs. Some games are just conducive to holding fans' attentions for a long time and keeping the spirit alive, and Thief gameplay happens to be one of them.

[aidakeeley]

Yeah, I'm liking the responses here (and need to make sure I've actually played all the Penumbras {and keep an eye on the new game, Amnesia}).

 

But, I was wondering if there were any such full on mods -- I guess the term is "complete conversion", or something -- wherein it seems the sky is the limit. Again what inspired my question was seeing Springheel's ghost. While I can sort-of-maybe-might-could correlate it to a particular Thief-universe being, I can also see that it can and, (kind of) knowing Springheel, will be endowed with a different set of attributes.

 

...Than the other being.

 

It's just that I have a feeling that this community, with the the already rich precursor to inspire it, will go beyond what I suspect is the level that other mods have taken themselves to. I mean it seems you can incorporate just about anything here. And not, as been joked about, just enhanced or amalgamated or supersonified rehashes. Beyond Zombies with chainsaw forearms. Beyond bigger bloody bullets for bigger bleedin' bazookas.

 

I see you guys talking about all the attributes you have control over and it seems limitless what you can do. And, maybe that's not new, but I think the fact that it is in the hands of people who understand and appreciate the difference between Thief and HL is significant.