Health Potion

[god_is_my_goldfish]

I would say keep speed and air, speed as a last minute escape tool, which rarely pops up in our campaign, air for said past reasons.

 

Invisibility and slow fall are pretty ridiculous, even in the a world such as we are using, as well as in terms of gameplay.

[Macsen]

Here's another possible potion bottle:

 

http://cache.tias.com/stores/vjd/pictures/obf35c.jpg

I like that bottle. It looks medieval, and used. The other designs suggested so far are too sleek and clean.

[Ishtvan]

I like that bottle too. I like the poorer quality glass, and function over form appeal.

[Darkness_Falls]

Breath potions are also not necessary. All the map desinger has to do is put little spaces for the player to come up and breath every so often, that's much more realistic AND adds to gameplay since you have to find those air spaces.

I liked having the option of using breath potions. Otherwise, the FM author is nearly forced to make a plethora of helpful little air pockets for underwater excursions.

 

Going down a long dead-end underwater tunnel with no air pockets and then using a breath potion to frantically find your way to the next air pocket that is several meters away is much more appealing to me than having air pockets placed strategically every 4 seconds; which would undoubtedly happen if breath potions aren't available.

 

(Eww, just had a flashback to T3's shadow paths which guided you through levels.)

 

I liked invisibility potions much more than slow-fall or speed potions. Gameplaywise I enjoyed the fact that you could totally sneak up on (or by) someone. Was fun for me. My only complaint for the Invisibility and Speed potions is their effects didn't last long enough. I vote to include all T2 potions, otherwise we'll stir up controversy.

[sparhawk]

Considering that we do a Thief conversion we should probably include all of them. IMO the potions are pretty easy to code anyway, so they are not really a big decision.

[Renzatic]

I like that one best. It has that oldschool victorian look I seem to be leaning towards.

[oDDity]

Going down a long dead-end underwater tunnel with no air pockets and then using a breath potion to frantically find your way to the next air pocket that is several meters away is much more appealing to me than having air pockets placed strategically every 4 seconds; which would undoubtedly happen if breath potions aren't available.

Don't be an idiot, any normal person could hold his breath for at least a minute underwater, and that can be increased with training. A minute gives plenty of scope for traveling, and frantically trying to find somewhere to come up and breath towards the end of that minute is much more stressful that swigging your stupid fucking magic potion.

Unlress some auther is thinking of setting his entire fucking mission at the bottom of the ocean, there's no need for breath potions in a game like this, they're just another pathetic hangover from Thief, which wouldn't have been though of otherwise.

[Domarius]

I liked having the option of using breath potions. Otherwise, the FM author is nearly forced to make a plethora of helpful little air pockets for underwater excursions.

You generally have to do this anyway. Parts that require breath potions have to be really special bits, like a once only thing, like for a major goal, that allows you to get back and forth another way once you do it the first time, or a special but unnessecary secret.

 

All other water areas have strategically placed air pockets. The good missions place them in "realistic" ways and positions, which means you have to make several half hearted attempts as you go back and forth making sure you can see an airpocket coming up before you reach your halfway point and commit to the rest of the journey.

[Springheel]

I don't think we're under any obligation to code all of the various potions that were in the other games. FM authors can easily do that themselves if they want them. It seems like the general consensus is that invisibility and freefall potions are out, and that speed potions and breath potions are in. Whether we actually use them in the campaign or not is another matter.

[sparhawk]

Considering the effort to implement in and to create the potion models this is really a VERY minor effort on all accunts, but gives us the benefit of having the full set of the original Thief. Since we want to appeal to the Thief audience compared to the effort it takes, I don't see a reason why NOT to include them. If we don't use speedpotions in our campaing, then the same argument would apply to them as well. So why do the one and not the other? Especially when considering that the speedpotions can cause more problems then any of the others.

[Springheel]

I don't know, I'm actually -against- invisibility potions on principle. Any world where invisibility potions exist doesn't need well-trained thieves. And from a gameplay perpsective an invisibility potion is as stupid as an invulnerability potion. The whole game is about learning to hide and sneak well.

 

Do we need to include every single thing that was in T2 just because?

[Domarius]

Invisibility potions were rare and almost useless unless you really planned your actions, because the duration is so short.

 

I have probably used them about three times in my entire Thieving history. It was always some insanely hard bit, where I was really desperate, and only one short area was involved that I could dash through quickly.

[oDDity]

Rather than arguing over which potions should or shouldn't be in, let's just compromise and have no potions at all.

[New Horizon]

Rather than arguing over which potions should or shouldn't be in, let's just compromise and have no potions at all.

:lol: The voice of reason.

 

It's a toolset first and foremost. So, best to include the tools. What does or doesn't go into the campaign is another matter but for the toolset, if the other potions are easy to include, lets do it. I rarely used anything but health potions myself but FM authors have other ideas and goals in mind. Lets give them the options and see what they come up with.

[Fingernail]

hijack'd

[sparhawk]

Do we need to include every single thing that was in T2 just because?

If we talk about NEED we probably don't need much. We don't NEED a variety of AI models, because we can use the same model again.

 

Personally I don't need this potion anyway, so I don't really care if it is in or not. I only used it once, and this was to see how it worked. I never used it to actually achieve something with it, which I couldn't have achieved otherwise.

I'm the type of player who uses the smalles possible amount of such items, because I always think such an powerfull item will surely be needed later in a tight corner and I don't want to reload because I used it to early. Usually I end up using only half the euqipment in most games because of that. I tend to forget that games are now made for people with only a small frustration tolerance and they are not allowed to be to hard.

 

So the question most certainly is NOT if it is needed in the toolkit, the question is if we want to make a Thief experience as close as possible to the originals as we can, regardless for which player plays it.

[Springheel]

, the question is if we want to make a Thief experience as close as possible to the originals as we can,

 

Well, I'll bow to the majority on this, but it seemed like most people never used or didn't want invisibility potions, so I don't think they're a necessary component of the 'classic Thief experience'. We're not including flash mines or frogbeast eggs or scouting orbs, so what's the difference?

[New Horizon]

Well, I'll bow to the majority on this, but it seemed like most people never used or didn't want invisibility potions, so I don't think they're a necessary component of the 'classic Thief experience'.  We're not including flash mines or frogbeast eggs or scouting orbs, so what's the difference?

Well, maybe a unique case here. Flashmines somewhat replicate flashbombs, frog beasts explode so they're like some other type of explosive and scouting orbs...well, that would be dictated by the player having some sort of mechanical eye or using woo to explain it perhaps. I would say a scouting orb is just a little too close to home in that sense since we would be more obviously cloning garrett. Potions are pretty harmless....one model, different skins and likely just a smattering of coding for each one.

[oDDity]

There should be no invisible potions on the grounds that only a total idiot would build a seciton into a mission that required the use of them.

Invisible potions are the antithesis of this game.

LGS had some bad ideas as well you know.

[Fingernail]

Do you still want the label?

 

It has the glass fragment shader btw, might be too performance intensive if you hoard healthpotions in one room for some users?

 

[New Horizon]

There should be no invisible potions on the grounds that only a total idiot would build a seciton into a mission that required the use of them.

Invisible potions are the antithesis of this game.

LGS had some bad ideas as well you know.

I have to agree with you on the subject of invisibility potions. They defeat the purpose of the game really.

[Springheel]

I'm not sure I like the transparent glass.

[Macsen]

Looks good Fing. Doesn't the glass needs to be transparent so that the player can recognise the potion inside?

[Renzatic]

D3 can handle tons of fragment shaders onscreen at once...just look at HL2 and all it's onscreen funkiness as a benchmark comparison.

 

I've been wanting bottles that magnify and bend what's behind them for awhile now...sorta like the magnifying glass in whatshisfaces lab towards the beginning of HL2. I thought it'd look neat having a few bottles sitting on a shelf throwing that off.

 

And the label shouldn't wrap all the way around...just have it on one side.

[Springheel]

I guess I should clarify. The glass, at the moment, doesn't look right. A transparent bottle takes the colour of the liquid inside it...you don't see a clear shell around the liquid like you do in the above shot. Perhaps trying some kind of coloured glass would be better.