Player Model

[Macsen]

No one really hates the name Farrell. Farrell Alverstone is his full name, but that'll rarely be used.

Since he has an Irish first name why not an Irish surname? Alverstone is a town on the Isle of Wight, doesn't really fit 'Farrell'.

[oDDity]

It's hardly that clearcut. There was a big influx of English to Ireland in the 17th century. Some kept their own names, some made them sound more Irish, some Irish made their names sound more English etc.

I' d say Farrell is originally anglo-saxon, it certainly isn' t celtic.

[Macsen]

It's hardly that clearcut. There was a big influx of English to Ireland in the 17th century. Some kept their own names, some made them sound more Irish, some Irish made their names sound more English etc.

Farrell comes from Fearghal, a celtic name which means "heroic". To put this in the context of the City it would probably mean Farrell comes from a family which has pagan roots, or they probably wouldn't give him a pagan name. But Alverstone is a victorian english name, so that doesn't work. Unless his father, a wealthy Alverstone, married a lowly born pagan cleaner, or into a mage family that has pagan roots, and she named him Farrell after her dear papa.

[Subjective Effect]

Well that crazy mix is perfect if you ask me. But the names themselves are err, not quite right. Farrell is far superior to Derek. I know people who use different names from their real name, Derek, because they dislike it so.

 

And Garrett is widely acknowledged to be but 5' 8" Macsen, based on his height compared to other people (he is a little shorter than most other male AI) and compared to items in both DromEd (where it is judged by eye level) and T3Ed.

[Macsen]

And Garrett is widely acknowledged to be but 5' 8" Macsen, based on his height compared to other people (he is a little shorter than most other male AI) and compared to items in both DromEd (where it is judged by eye level) and T3Ed.

Ion Storm workers on that forum said he was 6 foot. Oh, well, he must have had a growth spurt between games. It wasn't really important though, because most humans in Thief were about the same size. With oDDity's models either the Thief is really short or the elite guards are really tall. I'd rather the thief be really short because there's only one of him, so it's easier to explain.

[oDDity]

Farrell comes from Fearghal, a celtic name which means "heroic". To put this in the context of the City it would probably mean Farrell comes from a family which has pagan roots, or they probably wouldn't give him a pagan name. But Alverstone is a victorian english name, so that doesn't work. Unless his father, a wealthy Alverstone, married a lowly born pagan cleaner, or into a mage family that has pagan roots, and she named him Farrell after her dear papa.

 

Stop being ridiculous. It was common practice for nobles to wed nobles of other familes, it was the main way of forming allegiances, whether between powerful Welsh, Scottish, Irish or English familes. Daughters would be married off, so forenames and surnames get mixed up in the process.

[pakmannen]

Can't you people swich to the metric system already? I don't understand this thread

[oDDity]

Most of the team are North American or British, so pounds and feet are the official measurment system of the Dark Mod.

[Macsen]

Stop being ridiculous. It was common practice for nobles to wed nobles of other familes, it was the main way of forming allegiances, whether between powerful Welsh, Scottish, Irish or English familes. Daughters would be married off, so forenames and surnames get mixed up in the process.

Who's being ridiculous? That's the exact thing I recommended we say:

 

"Unless his father, a wealthy Alverstone, married into a mage family that has pagan roots"

[Springheel]

The name of the thief really only matters for the campaign, since individual FM authors will call him whatever they want.

 

As for whether the name sounds celtic, anglo-saxon or whatever, come on. We're dealing with a pseudo-European fantasy setting. The names can be anything that we like the sound of.

[Macsen]

As for whether the name sounds celtic, anglo-saxon or whatever, come on. We're dealing with a pseudo-European fantasy setting. The names can be anything that we like the sound of.

 

I find that putting a lot of thought into such small details adds a lot of verisimilitude to the world. I can't abide high fantasy that just throws in everything; a celtic broach here, a mongolian belt there, an arabian sword there, and so on. If it matters that things such as clothes, architecture and so on fit the 'period' then it's also important that we choose names that are appropriate to the setting. What interests me most about the City are the cultures; these cultures should be reflected in every detail of the place so it really feels like a living, breathing city rather than a slipshod mix of things we threw in because they sounded cool.

 

And frankly, if some people have enough interest in something to devote time in working them out where's the harm in that? You've spent a lot of time selecting a lot of fine paintings and banners that fit the period, for instance. I'm sure a lot of team members and players wouldn't have been that fussed whatever you stuck on the wall, but since you took the time to get it right, that's great. In the same way I like to take my time in getting these kinds of details right.

[SneaksieDave]

DISCUSSION ABOUT SIZE!

On a related, semi-important useful note, does D3 have in-editor scaling of models? I haven't found anything like it. I'm asking because it is in UnrealEd (OMG BLASPHEME). Change the renderscale and voila, varied guard sizes, so they don't all look like an army of tall clones. If it doesn't exist now, would such a property be easy enough to add? Quite useful, and not just for AI (e.g., also static meshes - larger/smaller window, fountain, supports and columns, etc).

 

And either TDM has a lot of liars or this is one TALL ASS MOD TEAM.

[Macsen]

And either TDM has a lot of liars or this is one TALL ASS MOD TEAM.

Yeah, three members at least over 6 foot two. And Domarius looks pretty tall in the pics of him?

 

We should have called it 'Heads in the Clouds Studios'.

[Springheel]

What interests me most about the City are the cultures; these cultures should be reflected in every detail of the place so it really feels like a living, breathing city rather than a slipshod mix of things we threw in because they sounded cool.

 

Of course. But assuming the city is going to sound British or Irish or whatever is a decision we haven't made yet. Maybe the names will sound predominantly germanic or roman. Nothing in the setting has been officially named yet.

[Macsen]

Of course. But assuming the city is going to sound British or Irish or whatever is a decision we haven't made yet. Maybe the names will sound predominantly germanic or roman. Nothing in the setting has been officially named yet.

 

Since everyone speaks English in this European setting, and all the architecture and armour is based on medieval England, we can deduce from this that this world we have created is a representation of Britain. Furthermore, this world is chequered by Victorian steampunk elements. Since the Victorian era only took place in Britain during the industrial revolution (named after our own Queen Victoria) we can again deduce that the setting is a representation of Britain. And, since oDDity is creating what he describes as "woad covered barbarian warriors", which pretty much sums up the Picts of Scotland in four words, we can again assume that this setting is a representation of Britain. In conclusion, all the evidence so far points at this city being a representation of medieval/victorian Britain. If this hasn't 'officially' been made clear (which I presume means you choosing to put it in one of your sacred locked threads) it's because it's so obvious that it didn't need to be.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

And either TDM has a lot of liars or this is one TALL ASS MOD TEAM.

 

6 foot here

 

Odd-

It was probably just the perspective of the first comparison shot, but do smaller people have that level of difference in skull size from taller people in real life?

[Springheel]

Since everyone speaks English in this European setting, and all the architecture and armour is based on medieval England

 

The architecture is based on lots of places, including France and Germany. The armour has just as much Spanish influence as it has English. Many of the potential names put forward for the city were Austrian or Germanic. And as a port city in an empire, there would be a mix of all kinds of cultures (and thus names) over the centuries. The point is, trying to argue that 'Farrell Alverstone' isn't a good name because it doesn't go together according to real world naming conventions is pretty irrelevent.

 

If this hasn't 'officially' been made clear (which I presume means you choosing to put it in one of your sacred locked threads)

 

Yeah, we know you're not happy when you can't just make whatever decisions you want regarding the setting. But seeing as we're a team, everyone is going to get to contribute, and the results will go in the Design forum, the same way everything else does on this project.

[Darkness_Falls]

I'd personally like to see Farrell be the same height as the beautiful fair maiden lady:

The Beautiful Fair Maiden Lady *sigh* *batting eyelashes*

 

With all the enemies being so large, in general, though, I have a feeling it might seem odd when Farrell goes toe-to-toe with *any* enemy and he's looking at their chests. On the one hand it could be cool that everyone will look so intimidating, but on the other hand, we might get the feeling that he's just a little kid looking up to a bunch of adults. The latter isn't so appealing and I won't know until I play it if I get this feeling. Just a hunch that I/we will, though.

 

Critiquing... I think the player model's boots look too big/tall. They look to almost cover his knee-caps. Proportionally, something just looks haywire there in the lower legs. I know you love hearing about your boots, oDDity.

 

I rescinded any vote I had for the name 'Daerek,' or whatever, once I found out how it was going to be pronounced. I originally thought it would be pronounced more like "dark," but later heard otherwise.

 

Macsen wrote: Farrell comes from Fearghal, a celtic name which means "heroic". To put this in the context of the City it would probably mean Farrell comes from a family which has pagan roots, or they probably wouldn't give him a pagan name.

LOL, what are you talking about? How did you deduce that he had pagan roots just because Fearghal means "heroic"?? (Please, no need to explain ) An analogy, though: my name means "tough," ergo I have hammerite roots. WTF?? LOL

 

Macsen wrote: I'm sure a lot of team members and players wouldn't have been that fussed whatever you stuck on the wall, but since you took the time to get it right, that's great.

I think we would have been fussy. None of us liked the lack of creativity for the paintings in Thief 3. Springheel could've gone too modern, too nouveau, or too many other things. Similar to how we have to get the music & sounds just right.

[pakmannen]

On a related, semi-important useful note, does D3 have in-editor scaling of models? I haven't found anything like it. I'm asking because it is in UnrealEd (OMG BLASPHEME). Change the renderscale and voila, varied guard sizes, so they don't all look like an army of tall clones. If it doesn't exist now, would such a property be easy enough to add? Quite useful, and not just for AI (e.g., also static meshes - larger/smaller window, fountain, supports and columns, etc).

I don't know about D3ed but earlier versions of GTKRadiant had a "scale" key you could use on entities. Haven't tested it with D3 so I wouldn't know if it works.

 

Oddity, I thought you would be a fan of the metric system, seeing how vastly superior it is.

[sparhawk]

I don't think we should have a vote at all. I think I should name him. After all, I designed, modeled, textured and animated him. I think I should get to name him as well, and it's hardly important anyway.

No one really hates the name Farrell. Farrell Alverstone is his full name, but that'll rarely be used.

 

I don't think we should have a vote at all. I think I should name him. After all, I wrote the code that makes him come alive. I think I should get to name him as well, and it's hardly important anyway.

No one really hates the name Daerek. Daerek Gordon is his full name, but that'll rarely be used.

[sparhawk]

Farrell comes from Fearghal, a celtic name which means "heroic".

 

I like that Fearghal much more, because Farrel always reminds me of a ferret. Even thogh I can't even write that name without copying it.

[sparhawk]

Most of the team are North American or British, so pounds and feet are the official measurment system of the Dark Mod.

 

Since all the important stuff is made by europeans, we use metric system. Kilo and Meters are the official measurment system of the Dark Mod.

[oDDity]

Yes, several people do really hate the name Daerek.

How are you writing the code that makes him come alive, it's the animaitons that do that. I could implement him as the default player model using the existing D3 code.

I think we've already established that your grasp of what constitutes good or bad sounding names in English, is laughable at best.

You're the only European on the team who needs to deal with measurments.

[sparhawk]

The name of the thief really only matters for the campaign, since individual FM authors will call him whatever they want.

 

That's not true and we already discussed it. Most people will either call hom Garrett, or what WE give him as a name.

[sparhawk]

And frankly, if some people have enough interest in something to devote time in working them out where's the harm in that? You've spent a lot of time selecting a lot of fine paintings and banners that fit the period, for instance. I'm sure a lot of team members and players wouldn't have been that fussed whatever you stuck on the wall, but since you took the time to get it right, that's great. In the same way I like to take my time in getting these kinds of details right.

 

I second that.