Farrell Anims

[oDDity]

Some Farrell animaitons so far, no mo-cap, these are all done by hand -

 

crouch run/walk - Just going to use the same one at different speeds.

 

Walk forward - this was my 5th attempt to get a distinct walk cycle for him, a real pain in the ass.

 

lean

THey're virtually never going to be seen of course, but they still ahve to look half decent.

THis isn't the finlal skeletal setup so dont' worry about bits of mesh not being where they should.

[sparhawk]

Looks quite good.

 

Why does he need the sidestep? He shouldn't sidestep, instead he should just lean from the waist. Most of the time this is done from behind a corner, and you can easily bend at your waist far enough to get a good look around it, without having to sidestep. Also this might cause similar problems like in TDS, so we should avoid this.

 

The forward walk looks to me more like a cautios forward walk. Like with the slow walk modifier applied. A normal walk cycle should be just that, a normal walk.

[New Horizon]

Great work oDD. A few little details that can be tweaked later, but they look really good. I would say you're on your way to adding 'animator' to your list abilities.

[New Horizon]

Looks quite good.

 

Why does he need the sidestep? He shouldn't sidestep, instead he should just lean from the waist. Most of the time this is done from behind a corner, and you can easily bend at your waist far enough to get a good look around it, without having to sidestep. Also this might cause similar problems like in TDS, so we should avoid this.

 

The sidestep is pretty subtle compared to TDS spar, and I think it's needed to extend the players reach. The TDS side step was really wide, and the animator also didn't take care to ensure that the model returned to the starting position. You probably noticed that Garrett would end up moving an inch or two in the direction he leaned in T3. Whoever did their work was not very good at all. I can see that oDD didn't let this happen.

 

Yeah, just looked at that lean again. It's good shit.

[oDDity]

THe problem is there are so many different variations of animations needed for the player character.

As well as the normal forward ones - crouch walk, creep, crouch run, walk cautious, walk normal, run, for each if them there needs to be a left, right and back variation, a variation of every one of the above holding every possible weapon or peice of equipment, then there's a draw and a set of use animations for every weapon and every peice of equipment, also, I'm not sure what's to be done about the mantle animation, there are so many different heights you can mantle on to that one animaiton isn't going to work.

[sparhawk]

I think we wont need different animations for all permutations of weapons and equipment. We can put the weapon into the hand position and link it to the model. It will not look as good as if animated, but we can't create all possible permutations either.

[Gildoran]

Aren't animation channels supposed to solve some of those problems, so you could sepperate out the walking/running/etc animations from the equipment ones and not need to do every possible combination?

[oDDity]

Yeah, I suppose it'll be ok, though people do tend to move differently when they're holding certain things, and big objects like the bow might cut through the player mesh if you just stick it onto the player's hand with code.

[Darkness_Falls]

I share Sparhawk's sentiment. If the player model side-steps when he leans, won't it lead to him sometimes falling off of cliffside ledges like it did in TDS? I like the T1/T2 lean better in that it's just the upper torso that leans. There's nothing wrong with that and doing so leads to no risk of falling off ledges. Why would a thief expose both his leg/foot and his upper body when leaning around a corner, when he could just expose his upper body?

[Springheel]

It's very difficult and not very natural to lean to the side in any significant way without moving your feet. Besides, isn't it true that the player's bounding box determines when he falls off something, not the position of the model's feet?

[New Horizon]

I share Sparhawk's sentiment. If the player model side-steps when he leans, won't it lead to him sometimes falling off of cliffside ledges like it did in TDS? I like the T1/T2 lean better in that it's just the upper torso that leans. There's nothing wrong with that and doing so leads to no risk of falling off ledges. Why would a thief expose both his leg/foot and his upper body when leaning around a corner, when he could just expose his upper body?

 

It shouldn't. Doom 3 is setup differently than TDS. In doom 3, you're still a floating camera. The player camera/ movements were totally bound to the model for 'body awareness' in T3. We're not doing that here. The camera does follow the eyes of the model...but it's not strapped to it in the same way it was in TDS. Our model is simply for shadows (if enabled) and reflections. The hand you see in Dark Mod is not the actual model hand.

[New Horizon]

Besides, isn't it true that the player's bounding box determines when he falls off something, not the position of the model's feet?

 

Bingo.

 

That's why we can control player bob and everything else, unlike T3...our model is just tagging along for the ride, it's not the driver.

[Darkness_Falls]

It's very difficult and not very natural to lean to the side in any significant way without moving your feet.

I disagree. I remember having the same discussion a long time ago when we talked about leaning. I don't know why it would be hard for you to do this, or why it would be easy for me but any time I want to lean around a corner I find it very natural to only move my upper body/head/neck. In that hit 80s TV show Miami Vice, they always poked their heads around corners without moving their feet. So from an 'anatomically difficult/unnatural' standpoint, I don't feel the argument holds much water.

Doom 3 is setup differently than TDS.

Fair enough. That's definitely good news.

[sparhawk]

It's very difficult and not very natural to lean to the side in any significant way without moving your feet.

 

Have you tried it? We are not talking here about big leans, to gain several meters. And you can try it yourself. Place yourself at a corner and look around it wiht just bending at the waist. You will see that you get more then enough of a view and you don't need to move your feet at all. And considering how a thief would usually look around corners, this would be much more natural in such a situation than doing a step. Just think of how you would play hide and seek when you want to see wether the seeker is coming. I bet you never really moved your feet, because you wanted to avoid detection. And our Thief is pretty much in the same situation.

[Springheel]

In real life you can position yourself so that you only have to lean a few degrees to look around a corner. In the game, our thief is leaning more than 25 degrees to the side. Try that without moving your feet, and you'll see it is very awkward.

[Ishtvan]

First of all I think these are fine for the purposes of seeing them in a mirror and seeing the shadow. Any comments I may have are nitpicky, but here they are if desired:

 

Re: Leaning

 

Try finding a mirror, and leaning in to it from the side. You can lean pretty far without moving your feet, but the trick to leaning farther seems to be rotating your hips to face the direction you're leaning, so that, rather than just leaning sideways at the waist/spine joint, your body is actually bending forward a bit, but the lean direction is still sideways with respect to your feet.

 

This makes sense, since when bending forward you can go pretty far (like touching your toes), and the whole length of your upper body gets deflected which makes a larger arc. I don't think many people can bend only sideways at the waist/spine all the way over and touch their foot. It feels like one's spine would have to be broken to do that.

 

Re: Crouch-walk / run

Looks perfect to me.

 

For the crouch-creep, I always imagine someone holding their arms forward and relatively steady for balance (in the stereotypical "thief creeping" pose). Maybe this is influenced by games and movies though.

 

Walk looks good too, although I agree that this might do for the creeping, whereas normal walk would be a bit more natural and flowy like the crouch-walk is. [EDIT: On second thought, I can see the current one also working as someone who is walking at a normal speed, but also trying to keep quiet.]

[sparhawk]

Since a waist leaning gives you enough view without moving, I don't see why this suddenly should make any difference doing the same with the game character.

Hell, I can easily bend about 45 degrees, without ANY problem, and I'm not the most athletic person. A trained thief should be able to do the same with equal ease.

[oDDity]

Heh, you guys will argue over anything, won't you?

I'll do another leaning one, it's actually easier to do one without the step.

There is no definitive right or wrong way to lean, it depends on the circumstances.

[Ishtvan]

Obviously you can do a very short lean by bending only sideways, and it works in real life, but in FP games our perspective is distorted so that distances look shorter than they actually are. That means with the short lean from real life, it feels like we have to be ridiculously close to the corner to be able to see around it.

 

The third person lean anim is a separate issue though, as long as it more or less follows the camera so that when you lean into the mirror, you see your face (instead of seeing your face lag behind the camera), it should be sufficient. Although I guess it does have some relevance, since projectiles hit based on the third person model, so if someone shoots your foot that you sidestep out with, you'll get hurt.

[sparhawk]

Heh, you guys will argue over anything, won't you?

 

"Squabble Studios" was not proposed for nuthin'.

[Darkness_Falls]

Although I guess it does have some relevance, since projectiles hit based on the third person model, so if someone shoots your foot that you sidestep out with, you'll get hurt.

Leaning around a corner is probably the most often used application of the lean and what good thief would want to expose his leg/foot while leaning around the corner, when a simple upper-body lean is very do-able? Knowing the thief could get hit in the foot by an arrow while leaning, we definitely shouldn't use the side-step lean. Thanks for making another anim to choose from, oDDity.

[oDDity]

lean 2

Yes, I know his head isn't the part furthest to the right, but while leaning round a corner, you put our hands out and lean aainst the wall. He has nowhere to put his hands while just standing free like this.

For looking in the mirror, which is the only time it'll be seen, this will look more realistic.

[SneaksieDave]

Nice. The only thing that jumps out at me is the limp arm. I find myself naturally putting that hand on my quadricep when I lean.

[_Atti_]

well he could always put his hand on his thigh/knee..but its fine like that too.

[New Horizon]

That's a nice lean move oDD. I tried it out myself and it works well. The arm does look a little funny hanging there, but it can be tweaked at a later date. Might look better if he slightly bent it inwards or something.

 

Edit:

 

Yeah, I just tried it again around a corner this time. The arm going into the lean does tend to feel more comfortable if I bend it inwards a bit...kind of compensating for the way the upper arm in the lean goes back.

 

Looks fantastic though.