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complex shaders and the model viewer

Baddcog

By Baddcog
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Baddcog

Baddcog

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I had been puzzled for quite awhile about not being able to see alot of the more complex textures like lamp glass in the model veiwer.

 

It was something I have mentioned but heard no response, and something I was concerned about as it was hard to tell what some models looked like, really made them look unfinished which is not something I want authors to think.

 

Anyway it was a simple fix. I added qer editorimage to one of the textures and I could see it in the editor :D

 

So while I was updating my materials I went thru and fixed all of the lights and went thru all the models. potions, ect... I believe I fixed them all.

 

The few issues I ran into:

 

My doors with alpha hinges, alpha doesn't show so it's hard to tell what shape hinges/lock plates are. I will probably fix by painting the shape on them roughly.

 

Springheel's serving tray uses steel_scratched_non_tiling... something or other and I can't find it anywhere. So I substitued another steel for the editor image. However I think that tex needs replaced.

 

--EDIT-- the compass model also uses this tex

-----------

As I was messing with tex files all day I decided to add a few loot entities, a few moveables, cleaned up here and there...

added skins for brass switches.

 

---------

@Tels, in the moveable def file there is a line that says

Do not use, for moveable base... This shows up on every moveable entity in the editor. makes them seem like an author shouldn't use em.

I tried to override it in one def but still saw that line in editor. Can we fix that?

 

------------

Switches:

Can someone set up a sliding lever and a rotating lever def for me, not really sure where to start.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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greebo

greebo

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Springheel's serving tray uses steel_scratched_non_tiling... something or other and I can't find it anywhere. So I substitued another steel for the editor image. However I think that tex needs replaced.

This texture has been renamed as it has been made tiling a while ago. The new scratched steel is in the parent folder without the nontiling keyword in its name.

 

@Tels, in the moveable def file there is a line that says

Do not use, for moveable base... This shows up on every moveable entity in the editor. makes them seem like an author shouldn't use em.

I tried to override it in one def but still saw that line in editor. Can we fix that?

That might be a recent DarkRadiant bug. If you're using the latest DarkRadiant 0.9.3 release, this is a bug which has been fixed in our development version.

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Tels

Tels

Posted
Posted
I had been puzzled for quite awhile about not being able to see alot of the more complex textures like lamp glass in the model veiwer.

 

It was something I have mentioned but heard no response, and something I was concerned about as it was hard to tell what some models looked like, really made them look unfinished which is not something I want authors to think.

 

Anyway it was a simple fix. I added qer editorimage to one of the textures and I could see it in the editor :D

 

So while I was updating my materials I went thru and fixed all of the lights and went thru all the models. potions, ect... I believe I fixed them all.

 

Aaah very cool. You are my hero!

 

Here in linux I also get a lot of "SHADER MISSING" when f.i. looking at glass, oddly enough, if I select the glass, it becomes partly transparent and looks ok.

 

I always figured that was a limitation of DR on Linux. :)

 

In addition, I also noted that using too small textures like 256x256 or even less in editor images makes the render preview become *very* fuzzy. It is hard to see what your level will look like when the editor shows your only a few pixels. So I think we also should go through and replace all editor textures less than 512x512 with 512x512.

The few issues I ran into:

 

---------

@Tels, in the moveable def file there is a line that says

Do not use, for moveable base... This shows up on every moveable entity in the editor. makes them seem like an author shouldn't use em.

I tried to override it in one def but still saw that line in editor. Can we fix that?

 

Are you using 0.9.3 of DarkRadiant? It has a bug that means the override is not working. Greebo already fixed it in SVN, so please use either SVN version or wait for the next one.

 

------------

Switches:

Can someone set up a sliding lever and a rotating lever def for me, not really sure where to start.

 

I thought we already have some of these? But i could be wrong.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Tels

Tels

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That's great if that bug is getting fixed greebo, does that mean transparencies will work in model viewer too?

 

Yeah, I'm sure I'm using 0.9.3. And my SVN is updated regularly.

 

If it isn't already, can we have please a semi-transparent "collision model" editor texture?

 

Right now in half of the models it is not really clear how the model looks as it is hidden by the collision texture :)

 

(might be only that way on linux :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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New Horizon

New Horizon

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If it isn't already, can we have please a semi-transparent "collision model" editor texture?

 

Right now in half of the models it is not really clear how the model looks as it is hidden by the collision texture :)

 

(might be only that way on linux :)

 

You can filter the collision texture by checking it off under the filter menu. :)

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Tels

Tels

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You can filter the collision texture by checking it off under the filter menu. :)

 

Duh!

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Springheel

Springheel

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Springheel's serving tray uses steel_scratched_non_tiling... something or other and I can't find it anywhere. So I substitued another steel for the editor image. However I think that tex needs replaced

 

This happens when material names get changed. Hopefully it will get fixed with the same texture I put on it originally.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Baddcog

Baddcog

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Well, I'm leaving that up to you Spring as I'm not sure exactly which tex it is. I just used one that was similar for an editor image, but that was just a hack so it wasn't blue in editor for now.

 

Fortunately that seems to be the only texture that caused a problem.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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OrbWeaver

OrbWeaver

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In addition, I also noted that using too small textures like 256x256 or even less in editor images makes the render preview become *very* fuzzy. It is hard to see what your level will look like when the editor shows your only a few pixels. So I think we also should go through and replace all editor textures less than 512x512 with 512x512.

 

That would be a waste of space; the whole point of the editorImage is that it is low-resolution to give a preview without taking up the disk space of a full-size texture.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "fuzzy", but if the preview is displayed with anything other than the normal expectation for a lower-resolution texture then that sounds like a bug.

DarkRadiant homepage ⋄ DarkRadiant user guide ⋄ OrbWeaver's Dark Ambients ⋄ Blender export scripts

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Tels

Tels

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That would be a waste of space; the whole point of the editorImage is that it is low-resolution to give a preview without taking up the disk space of a full-size texture.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "fuzzy", but if the preview is displayed with anything other than the normal expectation for a lower-resolution texture then that sounds like a bug.

 

The Dark Radiant in-editor camera view renders for me with the editor image. So choosing a 128x128 editor image gives me a *VERY* fuzze view while mapping. The only way I see the real texture (incl. bumpmap/specular) is to check it out in Doom.

 

As for wasting space, editor images can be (heavily) compressed JPGs, and converting a 512x512 TGA to JPG makes it so ridiculous small that shrinking the image further is pointless.

 

te@te:~/.doom3/darkmod/textures/darkmod/wood/boards$ ls -la worn_01_ed.tga
-rw-r--r-- 1 te te 196924 2007-10-09 08:05 worn_01_ed.tga

 

This is 255x255 pixel, 20Kbyte.

 

Converting it to JPG with GiMP yields:

 

te@te:~/.doom3/darkmod/textures/darkmod/wood/boards$ ls -la worn_01_ed.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 te te 16153 2007-10-29 17:45 worn_01_ed.jpg

 

16 Kbyte.

 

Note that this includes an in-file thumbnail, which isn't even used by DR, so lets remove it:

 

te@te:~/.doom3/darkmod/textures/darkmod/wood/boards$ ls -la worn_01_ed.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 te te 10157 2007-10-29 17:46 worn_01_ed.jpg

 

roughly 10 Kbyte.

 

So lets double the resolution, and also paint some "smears" on it to prevent the compression identifying similiar areas to easily:

 

te@te:~/.doom3/darkmod/textures/darkmod/wood/boards$ ls -la worn_01_ed.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 1 te te 29452 2007-10-29 17:48 worn_01_ed.jpg

 

30 Kbyte.

 

I do think we can stop talking about editor images and wasting space here. :D Just converting all the already exisiting editor TGA images to JPG would save more space than you would waste by doubling a few very fuzzy images.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Tels

Tels

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The Dark Radiant in-editor camera view renders for me with the editor image.

 

Btw, I think the editor images also should follow a naming convention (we have _editor.tga, _ed.tga, _ed.jpg etc.) and maybe they also should be in a different directory?

 

In any event, I think it would be possible to create two distribution of DM, the one with the editor images (full, for mappers) and one without (light, for players).

 

Although I do think the sum of all editor images will be way to small to justify this. :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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SneaksieDave

SneaksieDave

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Oh, that's just the preview texture (for speed, less memory than the full image, whatever else?). The higher res textures are shown in realtime lit view (F3), and DR's lit view is much more friendly than DoomEd's (you can do texture adjustments very easily, just like unlit view -- in DoomEd, you must be in refresh mode, and it starts getting very demanding and unstable/crashy (for me at least)).

 

People should be submitting _editor versions as JPGs, really.

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Tels

Tels

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Oh, that's just the preview texture (for speed, less memory than the full image, whatever else?). The higher res textures are shown in realtime lit view (F3), and DR's lit view is much more friendly than DoomEd's (you can do texture adjustments very easily).

 

Ah, I almost always use the lit view in DR to check the placement of textures and for the general look. I guess I am too much an perfectionist and artist, so instead of slapping just some texture on, I can take ages just to finish a single wall :-D

 

People should be submitting _editor versions as JPGs, really.

 

I can easily go in an convert them, making sure to remove in-file thumbnails and EXIF data. :) Just say the word :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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greebo

greebo

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Ok, I added some info to the wiki article, although I did check against our current repository and found that editor textures using the _editor suffix are by far the minority (almost all use the _ed). Considering this, I suggest changing the guidelines to _ed as this is 1) shorter and 2) less work for us (I don't want to rename all 300 editor images).

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Springheel

Springheel

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The higher res textures are shown in realtime lit view (F3), and DR's lit view is much more friendly than DoomEd's (you can do texture adjustments very easily, just like unlit view -- in DoomEd

 

What? Does DR have a fully rendered preview now? That's the only thing keeping me from switching over.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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greebo

greebo

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The rendered preview has always been working: you can switch to lighting mode in DarkRadiant by hitting F3 (this displays the normalmapped/specularmapped/full hires diffuse shaders) just fine, but the lighting is not on-par with Doom 3. You don't have shadows and the lights tend to be a bit dark, but the textures are mostly understood (save complex shaders with several stages).

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Tels

Tels

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Ok, I added some info to the wiki article, although I did check against our current repository and found that editor textures using the _editor suffix are by far the minority (almost all use the _ed). Considering this, I suggest changing the guidelines to _ed as this is 1) shorter and 2) less work for us (I don't want to rename all 300 editor images).

 

I agree. (less is more, anyway :D

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Springheel

Springheel

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You don't have shadows and the lights tend to be a bit dark, but the textures are mostly understood (save complex shaders with several stages).

 

Would that include addnormals? I generally use the editor just for checking out the appearance of models I'm working on, so I've stuck with D3 because I didn't realize DR's renderer was working.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Tels

Tels

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Addnormals (and other mapexpressions) support has been added in DarkRadiant 0.9.2 by mohij. This works fine. :)

 

But it looks to me like ambient lights are not used? When I turn o the preview, it is way too dark. But maybe only on Linux?

 

I can post comparisation shots from Doom, DR and DR lit if anyone wants :D

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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New Horizon

New Horizon

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But it looks to me like ambient lights are not used? When I turn o the preview, it is way too dark. But maybe only on Linux?

 

I can post comparisation shots from Doom, DR and DR lit if anyone wants :D

 

They're used, but for some reason they don't display quite the same as they do in D3. Probably something we can iron out though.

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