Builder Guard Head Moved?

[Ishtvan]

I noticed the Builder's Guard's head got sucked down into his chest some (so that it looks very wrong). I'm trying to figure out if my recent attachment code change caused this problem, or if it has to do with new meshes/animations?

 

Before I committed my attachment code change, I tested with the citywatch guard in test/endlevel . map. Before and after my change, his sword was in the same place, his head was in the same place. So it seemed like the attachment code change didn't change attachment positions. Is something else responsible for the Builder guard head move?

[Nyarlathotep]

I seem to recall Spring mentioning that it has to do with the recent switch to the city watch rig.

[Springheel]

I haven't looked into it yet but that's my working theory.

[Springheel]

I adjusted the head position so it should be fine now. The mesh needs a lot of work in general, however, so that will be my next project.

 

And is my imagination, or did these guys get taller?

 

edit: I'm fairly certain they did get taller with the latest change. They're now a few inches taller than the citywatch (even disregarding the bizarre head). They should really be the same size or slightly shorter.

 

 

Squill, did switching rigs change the scale of the model or something?

[Crispy]

The builder guard is looking quite dodgy since recent changes - the feet clip into the ground during the walking animation, for example. It honestly looked better before the changes. I haven't mentioned it before since I assume it's due to WIP anims.

[oDDity]

Also, the pauldrons should not be sticking up like wings.

[squill]

Squill, did switching rigs change the scale of the model or something?

 

Not that i know of. I've taken the same settings specified in the builder guard def file to export with a custom def file and i didn't touch the mesh. There are a lot of things going wrong with this model which i'm also trying to figure out.

[Springheel]

Can I fix the scaling by just re-exporting the md5mesh at the right size? That's really easy to do. Or do the animations have to be modified as well?

[squill]

Can I fix the scaling by just re-exporting the md5mesh at the right size? That's really easy to do. Or do the animations have to be modified as well?

 

i'm a bit confused by this scaling. If a scale value is set inside the def file it only scales the animation data(joints) right? But what is the current scale used for the guard..it's different for the citywatch?

[greebo]

I assume the scale parameter hasn't been adjusted to fit the citywatch>>builderguard animation export. I guess one can experiment a bit with this setting to get the old size back.

[Springheel]

If a scale value is set inside the def file it only scales the animation data(joints) right?

 

It scales both the md5mesh and/or animations during export.

[Ishtvan]

To confirm: This is definitely the only AI that changed attachment positions recently, and the other AI that do not have a new mesh still have all their attachments (head, sword, purse, etc) in the right places, right?

[New Horizon]

Just looked at this ingame. Yeah, the builder is definitely taller again...so it wasn't his head that got sucked down, it's just the body that scaled up around it. The need for official animation documents from iD could really save mod teams a lot of extra hassle. Grrr.

[Springheel]

Yeah, the builder is definitely taller again...so it wasn't his head that got sucked down, it's just the body that scaled up around it.

 

It's true that he's taller, but I don't think that's why the head was low. The offset values in the def file tell the head where to position itself based on the head joint, so as long as the head joint was still proportional to the other joints, the head position would be pretty accurate.

 

I think the problem was that the citywatch head joint is a bit lower than the old builder skeleton. Anyway, it's fixed now.

 

As far as the size issue, I remember Ascottk saying something about animations actually changing the size of the mesh? If you take a small model, like the thief, and apply a citywatch animation to it, then the thief will become the same size as the citywatch while playing that animation. That has never made a lot of sense to me, but maybe that's what is happening here.

[greebo]

Here is the information on the wiki (from ascottk):

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...ating_AI_Meshes

[Springheel]

What I don't understand is why we don't just shrink the maya binaries, and thus eliminate the need for any exporting keywords. Animations just store information about how to move/rotate the joints, not the actual position of the joints, correct?

[greebo]

Hm, no I don't think so. According to this information, I would read it that the animation data is actually coming with position information included:

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php/...ion_Information

 

Animations influence the size of the visible mesh. Suppose we take a single animation from a small character and use it for a larger character (as long as the previous conditions apply), then anytime the larger character uses that animation, the larger character will shrink to the smaller character's size. That would be a little strange if the character attacks you and suddenly shrinks . . . If we want that animation for the larger character then we would need to reexport that animation with the correct scaling option. See Scaling_And_Rotating_AI_Meshes and Advanced_character_rigging for exporting with a Maya to Doom3 work load.

 

That's probably why there is a -scale keyword in the first place.

[Springheel]

Yet all vertex coordinates and weighting information for the mesh is stored in the md5mesh file.

 

I shrunk the boots of the citywatch, for example, in the update I did to the md5mesh. I didn't change anything about the animations, yet the boots don't change size and get larger again when the animations are played--they stay the same size as they are in the md5mesh, which is what I would expect. Yet from Ascottk's description it sounds like they should, in fact, get bigger.

 

Or am I misunderstanding something?

[greebo]

It's beyond me, I'm afraid. I don't have any experiences with these settings, so I can't tell how these settings exactly work. I can only speculate, and I'd rather not do that.

[Springheel]

Well, I'll do a very simple test tonight, by making a small citywatch model and apply the existing animations and see what happens.