An attempt at Texture Evaluation

[SneaksieDave]

For the nomination thread, go here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=8991

 

The following is an attempt at taking a serious look at our texture repository. Hopefully it'll help us find the right balance between providing a decent offering while not being bloated with redundant or poor textures, and while keeping overall art quality in the mod high.

 

Anyone is welcomed to join or chime in. I certainly don't want to seem like the executioner. Please keep in mind what I write here is one person's opinion made on an assembly line process, and not intended to be a criticism of anyone's work. Notes I write aren't necessarily all-inclusive or fully thought out as much as what jumped out at me in an initial impression sense. If you disagree, speak up!

 

The system I'm using is just to update this map a half-dozen textures at a time, using the text entities, then viewing them in game with the moving lights.

 

This is an ongoing process, a little at a time, so I (or whoever else) do not become burned out on it. Okay, on with it then...

 

===============================

Key:

7+ Good stuff.

4-6 Ranging from pretty good to not so good, or serves a need. Consider low end for deleting or fixing.

3- Poor; this stuff should go.

-----

Notes:

(1) would benefit from normal map improvement

-----

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_green_black01

5: decent 'texture' to it, unique, serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_black_gold01

5: decent 'texture' to it, serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_floral_checker01

4: bland and blurry, odd normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_rectangles_brown01

4: (1), appealing in a rustic sense, but is blurry

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_red_tan02

6: (1), attractive and useful

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/ornate_red_tan01

8: good coloring and normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/plain_redgreen

4: (1), lack of normal and color clash with incoherency mute this one's potential

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/plain_redgreen_design

5: (1), addition of design really helps here

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/plain_whitey

5: (1), serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/rug_arrow_darkbrown_mooyan

4: (1), has potential, but is currently too washed out and incoherent

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/rug_arrow_darkbrown_old

4: (1), basically same as mooyan version

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/rug_whitey_striped

6: (1), gaudy in a good way, and certainly useful

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/rugs/rug_whitey_striped_design

8: (1), excellent aside from lacking normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/ornate_green_white*

6: serves a color need, though could be a better green, diffuse and subtle normalmap actually makes it appear fuzzy/sewn (awesome)!

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/geometric01_red*

6: decent normalmap, vibrant, not terribly attractive but serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/geometric02_red*

6: (1?), attractive, looks sewn

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/ornate_grey_white*

7: attractive, vibrant, looks sewn

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/ornate_black_white*

7: attractive, vibrant, looks sewn

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/ornate_blue_white*

7: attractive, vibrant, looks sewn

 

textures/darkmod/carpet/runners/ornate_red_white*

7: attractive, vibrant, looks sewn

 

--- end /carpet -------------------

 

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/dirt/stainwallfade2

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/dirt/drip

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/cracks/cracks01

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/web2_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/web4_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/webcorner_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/webdangle_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/webround1_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/websquare_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/webstrand_id

notfound: textures/darkmod/decals/webs/webtile_id

 

----- end decals --------------------

 

notfound: textures/darkmod/door/metal/rusty_twopanels

 

textures/darkmod/door/frame/arched_heavy01_frame

8: good deep normalmap, serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/bars_rivets_hinge

7: nice grain about it

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/bars_rivets_old

8: nice normalmap and speculars, a classic reinforced metal door

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/large_warehouse_old_green01

6: nice specs, serves a need

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/metal_pattern_overwood

7: interesting, decorative, multi-purpose

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/simple_rough01

5: (1), very basic, almost feels like a stage might be missing. Needs spec and normal improvement.

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/ornate/smooth_rich_ovalwindow01

5: (1), much potential, suffers from glare, slightly blurry, need better normals if to be used on brushes

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/ornate/smooth_rich_squarewindow01

4: (1), blurry (is this used on models?)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/5panels_01_worn

9: excellent, photorealistic

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/9panels_01_pale_worn

8: excellent

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/9panels_02_brown01

8: very good, likely to be a very standard frequently used material

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/9panels_02_red01

8: as previous; hopefully these are just hue shift textures?

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/arched_heavy01

7: good normals, serves a need (paired arch)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_metalbands01

6: bit bland?

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_metalbands_old

7: very nice wood, would benefit from having the metal lifted in the normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_oblique_nails_hinge

9: excellent, will be used often

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plain_hinge01

5: bland, normals on hinges are good

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plain_hinge02

6: bit bland, hinges a bit blurry, but otherwise attractive

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plainblue_hinge01

5: as above, could use stronger normal, why blue?

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plainblue_hinge02

6: as above, could use stronger normal, why blue?

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_uneven_ornatecorners01

7: vibrant and interesting

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_uneven_ornatecorners02

7: vibrant and interesting, color of the metal a bit unsettling

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/boards_2diamonds_worn

5: (1), good diffuse but needs normalmap work

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/boards_old_rough

5: (1), good diffuse but needs normalmap work

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/diamond_pattern01

5: (1), slight blur, needs normalmap work, but overall not bad

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/diamond_pattern02_nails

9: excellent, near photorealistic

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/diamond_pattern02_nails_dark

7: darker version of above, very good but not as appealing

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/metalbands_crisscross01

8: very attractive, will be used often, would probably be a 9 but for slight blur

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/old_flat_oak01

1: bland, ugly, bad glare gradient, blurry, no normals (that's just a shadow in the diffuse you're seeing); only saving grace is the specular

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/old_weathered_boards01

4: technical problems: normals are inverted; this is a door? Diffuse is flat, but normal gives it panels. expect that it probably has cousin in /wood

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_2panels_red01

6: maybe slightly blurry/bland, even "non-doory", but interesting due to normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_2panels_rich

5: (1), for model use perhaps? needs normalmap for brushes, but otherwise attractive

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_3panels01_dull01

4: (1), something wrong with normalmap, looks lumpy

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_3panels_red01

4: (1), for models? needs normal if to be used for brushes (perhaps move to /models?)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_4panels_red01

6: a bit flat, but otherwise nice

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_4panels_tan01

6: a bit flat, but otherwise nice

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels01_tall

7: attractive and sharp

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels01_tall_red

7: attractive and sharp

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02

7: good normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_brown

7: good normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_red

7: good normalmap (hopefully these are hue shifts)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels03_brown

7: good normalmap

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels03_light

(hue shift)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels03_red

(hue shift)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_6panels02

7: bit flat, but good otherwise

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_6panels_red01

7: good normalmap, different

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/weathered_boards

5: flat, needs normalmap work

 

---- end /door -------------------------

 

no issues with /fabric ; these are all decent or better quality, and serve a need

 

---- end /fabric ------------------------

 

 

(as is evident from the first addition to the list, only a few are in question of removal)

(individual evaluation maps might be coming to SVN; TBD)

Edited April 2, 2009 by SneaksieDave

[SneaksieDave]

[reserved]

[SneaksieDave]

Okay first evaluation map is up on SVN (mentioned here), for those not fully diving into the effort but willing to offer opinions on items that have been rated low already. There were no "insta-rejects" for this first item, but a handful of questionables. Read the notes, see what you think, and chime in. For those willing to dive deeper, view them all individually and compare. Be picky (it wouldn't hurt to take a quick peek here either; helps to focus the mind).

 

maps/test/eval1.map

 

( though everyone knows this by now, dmap test/eval1.map at the console )

 

I'm not sure if they'll be increasingly numbered going forward or just re-used; we'll see how it works out.

[Arcturus]

Some of it is my work so let me speak.

geometric02_red and ornate_red_white share the same normalmap - ornate_red_white_local. Ornate_red_white_end and geometric02_red_end use separate normals (because of fringe). It is very subtle "noise". You have to remember that sometimes it will be lit by a fireplace at a very sharp angle:

 

Normalmap on this carpet was made out of diffusemap so it looks like porcelain.

 

geometric_02_red:

 

 

Most of carpets are rotated differently than ornate_red_white_local, otherwise I would asign it to them (to save few MB).

 

As to different colour variations of ornate_red_white - they are not my work and aren't very good. Atomic green one should be deleted in my opinion. They are also not dds but tga and sit in \darkmod\textures\darkmod\carpet\runners

[SneaksieDave]

That's a tough call for me personally, as I like them both. The top one is strong, which I tend to like; you can see it from a distance, and it "feels" like it's there. But, it is perhaps somewhat plasticy like you're saying. The second one is very subtle and perhaps even weak, which makes it appear that there is none from a distance, but! When close up, it looks fantastic, actually looks furry. Anyway, in my opinion at least, they're both keepers... though the different "feel" of them is a bit troublesome in itself. Too bad we didn't have one uber-texture machine making everything consistently.

 

The green hue just needs adjustment, IMO.

[Springheel]

Okay first evaluation map is up on SVN (mentioned here), for those not fully diving into the effort but willing to offer opinions on items that have been rated low already.

 

I think the chances of getting people to respond are better if we collect all the 'nominees' first and then provide the map(s) for people to look at. If we start debating/discussing them a few at a time, I suspect we'll never get anywhere (that's what happened last time).

[SneaksieDave]

Next eval map (eval2) in this ongoing process is up on SVN in the maps/test folder. Also, first post updated to include the /doors folder. This one raised question of specific materials possibly being moved to the /models folder, as they are incomplete/inappropriate for brush work, but are already put to good use for models (e.g. in Dram's mansion).

 

I only recorded errors found in decals, as those are very specific use and nowhere near as large as standard textures. I stopped when I started getting burned out at looking at doors, and they all started to blend together into a big blur of indifference. That said, there are a few real gems, and a few baddies.

 

When viewing these, some things to keep in mind:

- r_skipbump 1/0

- r_skipspecular 1/0

- g_stoptime 1/0

- viewing as many of our textures as you can if at all possible, instead of only the ones nominated in the maps on SVN, in order to establish a "comparison standard" in your mind. For example, some of the poor ones might even strike you as "okay" when presented alone. But when you compare them to some of the 8-10 ranked items, the very apparent difference in standards becomes clear.

 

One person's opinion is just one person's opinion, so chime in.

[Flanders]

After looking at the door textures I found these ones that were unattractive and can be removed if you ask me (or improved).

 

textures/darkmod/door/metal/simple_rough01 (uninteresting, flat normal)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/ornate/smooth_rich_ovalwindow01 (pixelated, shadow and specular in diffuse map, door handle in diffuse map)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/ornate/smooth_rich_squarewindow01 (pixelated, shadow and specular in diffuse map, door handle in diffuse map)

textures/darkmod/door/wood/arched_heavy01 (normal map shows small details but not the overall geometry)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plain_hinge01 (resolution low, blurry)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/board_plainblue_hinge01 (resolution low, blurry)

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/old_flat_oak01 (bottom looks really dark, something wrong with it)

 

not a lot of difference between

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_brown

and

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_red

scratch one of them?

 

textures/darkmod/door/wood/weathered_boards (low res, blurry)

[SneaksieDave]

I'm thinking those /ornate ones are used on Dram's models, so they should probably be moved the models folder. They aren't really usable with brushes, and we shouldn't encourage it.

(normal map shows small details but not the overall geometry)

I'm the author of that one, so I can hopefully answer any question about it. I'm not sure what you mean about the overall geometry? That is it; it's a large heavy polished (smooth) door, with the only detail being the recesses. I added the light grain over it to give it some interest.

[Flanders]

I'm the author of that one, so I can hopefully answer any question about it. I'm not sure what you mean about the overall geometry? That is it; it's a large heavy polished (smooth) door, with the only detail being the recesses. I added the light grain over it to give it some interest.

The recesses look strong enough in the normal map. It doesn't look that flat when I look at it a second time. Maybe it's the shadows in the diffuse map that make it look flat from a certain angle.

[SneaksieDave]

Perhaps. Believe it or not that diffuse is already largely rebuilt, because there was so much glare on it from the very high polish. Several millimeters thick varnish. I took the pic on a sunny clear day, but that happened to be the day I was in Princeton with a camera.

[Arcturus]

not a lot of difference between

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_brown

and

textures/darkmod/door/wood/smooth_5panels02_red

scratch one of them?

 

This is one file: smooth_5panels02.dds. Different colour was added via RGB filter in material file. It can be tweaked.

I wouldn't miss other textures. The oak should definitely go.

[Tels]

If any textures should be deleted, now would be a good time