Jump to content


Photo

DarkMod / DarkFate correspondence


  • Please log in to reply
179 replies to this topic

#26 7upMan

7upMan

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1081 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:00 PM

 

Think about it: our russian friends may not not be able to ask for hints to make progress because of the language barrier. Of course it is frustrating to get stuck.


Then those folks just need to ask in their native language, in this case Russian. Over the time since I'm a member here, we had several threads where ppl did so because they don't speak English well enough. And there are always ppl who answer in their native language, be it because they are natives of that country or just speak that language well enough. Problem solved in no time.

 

* Slowly Engine
May disable most visual options. So, i read, that someone running DooM III on GeForce 2 MX440. And other says "Still game requests too much for medium quality graphics".


You MUST be joking. I know that Russians often have crappy/outdated computers (after all, most aren't rich), but you cannot be serious in asking the TDM/FM makers to lower the graphics quality to a level where you can play this game with at least medium settings. I already think that most models are too low ploy and that anyone who has a fairly modern rig should be able to play with 5 times as much polygons and still have good enough fps. But I'm fully aware that there are folks out there who don't have a fast computer, so I don't comlpain. 

I think, mappers try at least make FM. And forgets make this, to player understand - where go next. Character always silent, but may be say "I need key to open it", "I'm need on top" or "Aha, this room". Play like game "Go there, do not know where, Find something I do not know what.".


This is definitely something to ask the FM makers for. Well, why don't you? Ask in Russian, someone will translate it. Or you ask someone (like MoroseTroll) who can translate your request, so you can post it yourself. I'm sure someone will pick it up, since it shouldn't be that hard to implement.
My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

#27 Melan

Melan

    Contest Winner, Wordsmith

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4451 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:09 PM

This is truly amazing: I've made several TDM maps already and it feels impossible to do anything with such a restriction. Basic scene is instantly 50 000 polies. I even stopped to think are you kidding. :) How can dromed mappers do it?

Well, maps made in Dromed are just less detailed, but it is not all that bothersome - as a player, one can get used to a consistently low-poly world and see the beauty in it, and as a builder, you don't usually hit that limit if you don't do something wrong (which I have done time and again). Plus a lot of things that would be 3d geometry in TDM can be incorporated into textures in Dromed - like a banister, a row of windows, or what have you.
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#28 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:18 PM

7upMan

This is definitely something to ask the FM makers for. Well, why don't you? Ask in Russian, someone will translate it. Or you ask someone (like MoroseTroll) who can translate your request, so you can post it yourself. I'm sure someone will pick it up, since it shouldn't be that hard to implement.

I'm about no translate problem. Text, text, text, text. What, realy no left methods communication with player? DarkMod-mappers "occur on the same rake", that DromEd-mappers.

Edited by LongShad, 04 December 2010 - 03:19 PM.


#29 7upMan

7upMan

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1081 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:45 PM

Okay then, why don't you pick an FM or your choice and say exactly what you'd like the FM maker to implement. Say, "In FM XXX when you get to the YYY, I'd like the player character to say ZZZ." Or something like that. Be more specific, because bithing alone won't help you. I'm sure some FM makers will pick your suggestions up, as it should indeed save the players from annoyingly running around the map trying to figure out where to get next. I had that quite often too, so I'm very supportive to that idea.
My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

#30 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:03 PM

I'm until not FM-maker. But ideas:
* Adding road decree. If not do automap, they help to orient.
* A key books or notes, that contains scenario info, must remove to invertory. And trash and atmosphere notes - still lie. Then player understand - what text need reading for walkthrough.
* When player try picklocking door, important for scenario, character must say "Locked. I need key to open it.". Then will be understood.
* When player gets in important room, character may say "<Thing> must be here".

In general, something should happen, when player walk to right way.

#31 Shadowhide

Shadowhide

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1282 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:19 PM


7upMan


I recommend you to play mw2 mission where you can kill unarmed russians in airport
Proceed with caution!

#32 Fidcal

Fidcal

    Master Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16736 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:20 PM

My next FM has player notes. These are 2 to 3 pages long each. Each page is very brief. Whenever you find a readable or some other visual clue then the player character Farrell also makes a new player note. Page 1 is a hint. Page 2 is a good clue. Page 3 is fairly explicit.

The player can ignore these notes and just play as normal or if he gets stuck he can look at page 1 of the relevant notes (which will have inventory names like "manor entry note" and so on. There may be a skill stats deduction for each page but that can be ignored.

So these player notes could also supplement translation difficulties of lengthy complicated subtle clues so you need never get stuck in theory.

#33 Aprilsister

Aprilsister

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 553 posts

Posted 04 December 2010 - 08:40 PM

My next FM has player notes. These are 2 to 3 pages long each. Each page is very brief. Whenever you find a readable or some other visual clue then the player character Farrell also makes a new player note. Page 1 is a hint. Page 2 is a good clue. Page 3 is fairly explicit.

The player can ignore these notes and just play as normal or if he gets stuck he can look at page 1 of the relevant notes (which will have inventory names like "manor entry note" and so on. There may be a skill stats deduction for each page but that can be ignored.


This is great because I don't want any hints beyond what is written in the game texts but obviously "yer gamez sux cuz I can't find a walkthrus!!!11!1!" has become a common cry.

Another Fidcal innovation to explain why he is the 'Lead Mapper'!

#34 Alex-X-x

Alex-X-x

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:12 AM

Hello to you, from darkfate.ru  :ph34r:

First of all, a big respect to darkmod team, for killing a lot their time, and bringing this really huge community project to the finish.

I'm a thief fan, like many of us here, thief have this incredible atmosphere, especially the sound makes a great job, for it's unique atmosphere.

In darkmod, everything looks so clear, new (glamour :laugh: ), sounds are not a bad quality, but they not giving this kick to atmosphere, like in thief series, even ambient soundtracks, are just... standard. In all together, this mod looks to me more like engine presentation, sort of Crysis, for marketing their cry engine stuff, and not like a deeply inspired thief series mod, but yes it's very familiar to it. 

All i wish is, darkmod to get close atmosphere to thief as much as possible.

Best wishes to you, Alex-X-x



#35 ungoliant

ungoliant

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1747 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:47 AM

All i wish is, darkmod to get close atmosphere to thief as much as possible.


I am sure this is the fondest wish of the TDM team and community. Any help and suggestions along the way would be appreciated.

#36 Melan

Melan

    Contest Winner, Wordsmith

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4451 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:56 AM

All i wish is, darkmod to get close atmosphere to thief as much as possible.

Your wish is mine.
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#37 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 04:20 AM

I disagree, my opinion - atmosphere may similar, but no exact copy.

#38 ungoliant

ungoliant

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1747 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 04:26 AM

if you are worried about intellectual property infringement, I don't think Eidos can put a claim on "atmosphere" :)

#39 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 05:56 AM

No, i'm worried about lost originality and individuality.

#40 Thief Holy Thief

Thief Holy Thief

    Newbie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 08:11 AM

I'm until not FM-maker. But ideas:
* Adding road decree. If not do automap, they help to orient.
* A key books or notes, that contains scenario info, must remove to invertory. And trash and atmosphere notes - still lie. Then player understand - what text need reading for walkthrough.
* When player try picklocking door, important for scenario, character must say "Locked. I need key to open it.". Then will be understood.
* When player gets in important room, character may say "<Thing> must be here".

In general, something should happen, when player walk to right way.


Most TDM fms are much more easier than T1/T2 fms, do you want them to be even more easier? Not a good idea at all... The door doesn't lockpick? Then look for the key or for another way to enter - it is clear without any help. "Important room"? But player can't know it, he came to the place in the first time, and he must do everything himself "to find a way through the quest", that's for me one of the main things in the whole Thief series and in best fms for it.

#41 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

Thief Holy Thief

Most TDM fms are much more easier than T1/T2 fms, do you want them to be even more easier?

For this uses Levels Difficulty. Recently mappers have forgotten about it. Difference from Hard to Expert only in jobs to briefing and loot on loadout, not intelligence AI or their number.

The door doesn't lockpick? Then look for the key or for another way to enter - it is clear without any help.

Someone authors (not exactly TDM) often did locks almost al doors on key. Even if opening this door/chest no need for complete mission.

"Important room"? But player can't know it, he came to the place in the first time, and he must do everything himself "to find a way through the quest"

But is game, no real. If need, steal and grab on real life ;) . Author game must drive player by plot. He must report to player where need come and put obstacles, that conscious him. No maze-like gameplay.

#42 7upMan

7upMan

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1081 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:32 AM

LongShad, I'm curious, can you name a few recent T1/T2 FMs that satisfy your requirements?
My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

#43 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

No, my ideal, not released :). And in T2-missions i play rarely.
In TDM i like "The Builder's Influence".

#44 7upMan

7upMan

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1081 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:01 AM

So, excuse me, but are you setting higher standards for TDM FMs than for actual Thief FMs?

Also, look around here in the forum: you will hardly find any critizism for any released FM that goes in the same direction as yours. Maybe it's time for you to actually do something about it and make your own FM, where you show the other mappers "how to make a proper FM". From what I've seen, DarkRadiant isn't THAT hard to get used to. And besides, all the necessary tools are already there for you, so I think you can implement everything you wish for in your perfect FM.


My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

#45 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:40 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, but i already busy FM-development.

#46 Thief Holy Thief

Thief Holy Thief

    Newbie

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 12:29 PM

If need, steal and grab on real life ;) .


Maybe i really should try :wacko:

Author game must drive player by plot. He must report to player where need come and put obstacles, that conscious him. No maze-like gameplay.


Of course, but only softly, by gentle hints, not in a straight line.

#47 ungoliant

ungoliant

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1747 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 01:11 PM

But is game, no real. If need, steal and grab on real life ;) . Author game must drive player by plot. He must report to player where need come and put obstacles, that conscious him. No maze-like gameplay.


This is one of the major points that we here at TDM forum disagree with. TDM quality != FM quality. You can't just say TDM is poor quality because of the way a mapper implements an FM. What The TDM TEAM works on is a TOOLSET to create FM's. The team is not responsible for what people do with that toolset.

I agree more plot driven gameplay and scripted events to move plot forward during a mission would be great. But that does not mean that if a mapper doesn't do it that all of a sudden "TDM is boring and poor". TDM is TDM, regardless of what mappers do with it.

It would be nice if at least we could get everybody could be on the same page that the work on TDM is great because it allows the potential for extremely good stealth gaming. Even if you don't like some of the FM's, it would be great if everyone could at least be supportive and encouraging towards the TEAM, and acknowledge and compliment the great work that is done. FM development will pick up in quality as time goes on.

Also, as long as you guys are here, perhaps you could register on moddb.com and vote for TDM for "mod of the year"? We need all the support we can get against silly half-life zombie mods. Maybe post something back on darkfate that we need the votes as well?

Edited by ungoliant, 05 December 2010 - 01:19 PM.


#48 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:02 PM

ungoliant

This is one of the major points that we here at TDM forum disagree with. TDM quality != FM quality. You can't just say TDM is poor quality because of the way a mapper implements an FM. What The TDM TEAM works on is a TOOLSET to create FM's. The team is not responsible for what people do with that toolset.

And i don't say that ("TDM is poor"). But do not judge the contents of the game? The engine is worth nothing, if on him no good games. If engine good, but game on him poor... what say then? I think what understand written.

And where the above phrase here ?????

Also, as long as you guys are here, perhaps you could register on moddb.com and vote for TDM for "mod of the year"? We need all the support we can get against silly half-life zombie mods. Maybe post something back on darkfate that we need the votes as well?

Sorry, but that's too Advertising. Good FM is better Advertising, than votes.

Edited by LongShad, 05 December 2010 - 02:09 PM.


#49 Baddcog

Baddcog

    Mod hero

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5360 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:15 PM

ungoliant

And i don't say that ("TDM is poor"). But do not judge the contents of the game? The engine is worth nothing, if on him no good games. If engine good, but game on him poor... what say then? I think what understand written.

And where the above phrase here ?????


Sorry, but that's too Advertising. Good FM is better Advertising, than votes.


I think ungoliant got that from the 'boring FM's' remark.

Remember, TDM IS NOT A GAME. It is a TOOLSET. If you have complaints about boring FM's, fine that's a fair OPINION. But put that in the specific FM thread so the AUTHOR knows how you feel and that they should improve this or that.
Some team members are also authors, but not all authors are team members.

So complaining about an authors work and attributing it to TDM is boring, doesn't make sense.

in fact anyone that says TDM is boring is off base. How can a toolset be boring? I have a box of wrenches, I guess they are boring, they are like most wrenches, steel, shiny, hard, heavy. I can work on cars with them. But if I work on BMW are they boring? How about if I work on Honda, tools boring? Or is the honda more boring than BMW?

Maybe TDM isn't up to snuff. If so make the case why you think so, this stuff is taken into consideration. But remember that TDM is supposed to be a 'next gen Thief 1' toolset. For a team of volunteer fans I feel that the team has done a spectacular job of realizing that. It's tons of hard work, over five years I bet there is tens of thousands of hours logged in working on it. For the mod to even see release is quite a feat. Now it's up to authors and time to have fun gameplay, FM's get better with each release, just like T2 FM's.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#50 LongShad

LongShad

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:33 PM

I no know. We talks to different languages. I talk about Fan-Missions, you talk me about The Dark Mod.
May authors TDM too few consultates mappers?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users