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New Footstep sounds


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#26 SeriousToni

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 07:10 AM

So Anderson seems to like the new footstep sounds obviously :D


Edited by SeriousToni, 07 March 2016 - 07:11 AM.

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#27 Anderson

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 09:11 AM

Yes, your work is very convincing.


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 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#28 Springheel

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 09:41 AM

Does anybody know which file handles the audio sources? 

 

 

It's the player thief def file that handles this.  I forget the exact name, but there are a series of spawnargs that control both the sound the AI hears, and the sound the player hears.

 

As for the sounds cutting off, I don't know of a way around that.



#29 SeriousToni

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:59 AM

Okay thank you, that brings me a bit further, it lies under tdm_defs01.pk4 / def / tdm_player-Thief.def and has a section talking about:

// material specific footsteps (DarkMod SFX)
	//"editor_snd snd_footstep"	"Sound played when the player makes a step on the specified surface."

    // greebo: The following movetype-dependent footstep shaders are used 
    // when the CVAR tdm_footfall_sounds_movetype_specific is set to "1" (the default)
    // although there are a lot of shaders, they actually refer to a small set of sound files.
    // Otherwise the fallback shader "snd_footstep_<material>" is taken.

    // Dirt variations
	"snd_footstep_dirt_walk"		    "tdm_footstep_dirt_walk"
	"snd_footstep_dirt_run"			    "tdm_footstep_dirt_run"
	"snd_footstep_dirt_creep"		    "tdm_footstep_dirt_walk_creep"
	"snd_footstep_dirt_crouch_walk"	    "tdm_footstep_dirt_crouch_walk"
	"snd_footstep_dirt_crouch_run"	    "tdm_footstep_dirt_crouch_run"
	"snd_footstep_dirt_crouch_creep"    "tdm_footstep_dirt_crouch_creep"
    "snd_jump_dirt"				        "tdm_footstep_dirt_jump_land"

and so on...

 

So this is basically telling the game "if the player walks on a dirt shader, play a sound from the tdm_footstep set" etc. But it still does not exactly say what specific files should be used. I was checking other "obvious" def files and scripts I found there, but I don't had any luck so far. :(

 

EDIT: This seemed to be a problem already 5 years ago and then it was forgotten after all :) Some of the sounds are not referred at all, but there was no true out coming back in 2011 it seems.
http://forums.thedar...unds-footsteps/


Edited by SeriousToni, 07 March 2016 - 11:09 AM.

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#30 Springheel

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:24 AM

But it still does not exactly say what specific files should be used.

 

 

That would be in the sound shader files.  "tdm_footstep_dirt_walk" is a sound shader that will be in darkmod/sounds.  Not sure which one you'll need to open.  Inside you'll see something like:

 

tdm_footstep_dirt_walk

{

volume -5

 

darkmod/sounds/movement/player/dirt_walk1.ogg

darkmod/sounds/movement/player/dirt_walk2.ogg

etc

}

 

The list of sound files are there.


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#31 SeriousToni

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:28 PM

Awesome, that is what I needed. Thank you Springheel! :)

 

As looking at the sound shaders I now understand why the comparison video wasn't possible, since some of the footstep sounds (e.g. for stone) were already put into the mod. That's why some of the sounds didn't change when I removed my custom sounds folder. I recall sending you some footsteps years ago and there you might put the ones you approved into the 2.03 update.

 

I'll see what I can do on improving the footsteps while tweaking the shaders. After that, I will put together another update package for you guys. ^_^


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#32 SeriousToni

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 02:32 PM

Okay there seem to be three different files plus the player thief def data file. I'll try to clean up the files as best as I can, putting all player footsteps into the player shader and all others into the normal footsteps shader. The (redundant?) movement shader I will leave untouched firstly. I also add comments on where I did updates.

 

For many shaders there are no special sounds (e.g. for foliage there's only ONE sound for walking, creeping & crouching), so I need to edit the player thief def data file. I will create the necessary categories for walking, running, crouching, etc. and fill them with proper sound sets. I'll also try to raise the number of available footstep variations generally to 6, instead of mostly 3 or 4.

 

It's some big pile of work it seems, so I will keep you guys updated though... Maybe we can clean the footstep shaders up a little bit with this too :)


Edited by SeriousToni, 07 March 2016 - 02:36 PM.

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#33 Springheel

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 04:02 PM

For many shaders there are no special sounds (e.g. for foliage there's only ONE sound for walking, creeping & crouching), so I need to edit the player thief def data file.

 

 

Why would you need to edit the player thief def data file?



#34 SeriousToni

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 04:26 PM

By adding entries to the player thief def data file I am able to create new sound shaders, like adding running and creeping sound support for the carpet, see:
 
From this:

    // Don't have a full set of carpet yet

    "snd_footstep_carpet"		"tdm_footstep_carpet"
    "snd_jump_carpet"		"human_carpet_jump"

I can make this, which allows me to add new sounds to make a richer sound experience:

	// Carpet variations
	"snd_footstep_carpet_walk"		    "tdm_footstep_carpet_walk"
	"snd_footstep_carpet_run"			    "tdm_footstep_carpet_run"
	"snd_footstep_carpet_creep"		    "tdm_footstep_carpet_walk_creep"
	"snd_footstep_carpet_crouch_walk"	    "tdm_footstep_carpet_crouch_walk"
	"snd_footstep_carpet_crouch_run"	    "tdm_footstep_carpet_crouch_run"
	"snd_footstep_carpet_crouch_creep"    "tdm_footstep_carpet_crouch_creep"
    "snd_jump_carpet"			            "tdm_footstep_carpet_jump_land"

The newly created shaders allow me then to add new sound files in the tdm_sfx_movement_player shader file.


Edited by SeriousToni, 07 March 2016 - 04:28 PM.

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#35 SeriousToni

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 07:44 AM

Dear TDM sound fans,

 

over the last days (and "thankfully" to my flu which gave me enough time at home without having to work) I have worked on the next generation TDM sound update. Thanks to your feedback and your help I put together everything and you can download it here. After that, extract it to your darkmod folder (it should create a new fodler "sound" there and another one called "def"). In there, tehre are many new sounds in mostly 6 variations and some even with special creeping and running alternations. Even enemy movement was made more organic (chain rustles and armour plates clunking). Plus, there is a sound update for the black jack, that makes it more silent when you draw or sheet him (if you liek the old BJ sound, you can simply delete the "tools" folder after extracting everything.

 

For the lazy guys I put together a little video which shows some of the new walk, run and creep sounds. You can hear the slightly enhanced AI armour sound there and the black jack draw sound too. But for testing out everything I recomment you to use the pack in the BJ training mission (like I did in the video).

 

Enjoy :)

 

Download: Footstep Update V3

 


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#36 Anderson

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 09:07 AM

I'm totally for the new sounds. 

 

Just a question: did you change the sounds for dirt and/or snow as you showed a while ago? 


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#37 SeriousToni

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 09:10 AM

Thank you very much :)

Yes for dirt there are completely new ones for the player and the ones from the last update for the AI. For the snow it is the original sound for the AI and the player running, and for player walking in the snow there are new sounds.


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#38 SeriousToni

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:00 AM

Thank you for your kind feedback :)

 

Indeed this is a good idea for a possible next update. I had a look at the tdm_sfx_impact sound shader, which seems to give me at least some possibilities in the code. It has entries like:


body_armour_collapse
{
	editor_displayFolder	sfx/movement/impacts
        description "Made by Springheel"
	minDistance 1
	maxDistance 30
	volume -5

	sound/sfx/world/ai/armour_collapse01.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/armour_collapse02.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/armour_collapse03.ogg



}

body_elite_armour_collapse
{
	editor_displayFolder	sfx/movement/impacts
	minDistance 1
	maxDistance 30
	volume -5

	sound/sfx/world/ai/elite_armour_collapse01.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/elite_armour_collapse02.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/elite_armour_collapse03.ogg



}

body_collapse
{
	editor_displayFolder	sfx/movement/impacts
	description "Made by pakmannen"
	minDistance 1
	maxDistance 30
	volume -7

	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse01.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse02.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse03.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse04.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse05.ogg


}

body_collapse_soft
{
	editor_displayFolder	sfx/movement/impacts
	description "Made by Springheel"
	minDistance 1
	maxDistance 30
	volume -2

	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse_soft01.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_collapse_soft02.ogg

}

body_armour_collapse_soft
{
	editor_displayFolder	sfx/movement/impacts
	description "Made by Springheel"
	minDistance 1
	maxDistance 30
	volume -2

	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_armour_soft01.ogg
	sound/sfx/world/ai/body_armour_soft02.ogg

}

But looking at this tells me, that the collapsing sounds are not dependant on the ground floor material, but on the ai type itself (?) So it could be that this is not possible at the moment.

So I am not sure if I can "code" this, since this is a limitation I can not overcome with my current understanding of the code.

 

:(


Edited by SeriousToni, 09 March 2016 - 05:02 AM.

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#39 Springheel

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 11:02 AM

You could set it up for different sounds hitting different surfaces if you have the sounds available.  Right now there are only differences between landing on hard or soft surfaces (and some AI have their own sounds for those two surfaces).



#40 SeriousToni

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 12:42 PM

You could set it up for different sounds hitting different surfaces if you have the sounds available. 

Where would I have set this up? I know I can just add something like "body_collapse_foliage" but where would I tell the game to use it? I was search the def files again, but at least there was nothing obvious for body collapses.


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#41 Springheel

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 03:44 PM

Body sounds are set in the ai defs, under ragdolls IIRC.



#42 SeriousToni

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:27 PM

Thank you for the hint! With this I found:

 

tdm_ai_base/tdm_ai_base.def

// sound body makes when dropped/KO'd
	"snd_bounce"				 "body_collapse"

	"snd_bounce_carpet"			"body_collapse_soft"
	"snd_bounce_cloth"			"body_collapse_soft"
	"snd_bounce_grass"			"body_collapse_soft"
	"snd_bounce_snow"			"body_collapse_soft"
	"snd_sliding"				"tdm_heavy_stone_scratching02_loop"
	"snd_bounce_moss"       "body_collapse_soft"
        "snd_water"                             "water_hit_by_large_object"

which is set TWICE in the same file. I don't know if this is correct. Once it is setup for entityDef atdm:env_ragdoll_base and another time it is for entityDef atdm:ai_base.

Also there are lots of materials missing as you can see in the code above. If I look in the AI specific defs, like tdm_ai_humanoid_builders01/tdm_ai_builder_guard.def there is also only a few of the possible materials setup:

	"snd_bounce"				"body_armour_collapse"
	"snd_bounce_carpet"         "body_armour_collapse_soft"
	"snd_bounce_cloth"          "body_armour_collapse_soft"
	"snd_bounce_grass"          "body_armour_collapse_soft"

And some AI don't even seem to have setup a collapse sound (though it works ingame), like the tdm_ai_builder_priest.def

 

This is all a bit confusing and cluttered at the moment, as far as I can understand. Am I missing something obvious here? Could I just go and create something like "snd_bounce_wood", add the according shader sounds and it would work? I guess not. ^_^


Edited by SeriousToni, 09 March 2016 - 06:28 PM.

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#43 SeriousToni

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:30 AM

You will have to try it, with comedy sounds.

Why is there no video from Thief 3, where enemies get fooled down stairs with the oil bottles, underlined by that funny James Last music?! :D


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#44 Springheel

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:54 AM

Tthe ai need those spawnargs for when they are KO'd and become ragdolls, and the ragdoll entities need those spawnargs as well for ragdolls created from scratch.

 

Certain AI that have their own special sounds (like builders who are covered in plate armour) have their own spawnargs that override the inherited ones from ai_base.

 

Any material not specifically listed defaults to "sound_bounce".

 

Could I just go and create something like "snd_bounce_wood", add the according shader sounds and it would work?

 

 

Yes. 



#45 SeriousToni

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:38 AM

Thank you again so much for making me understand the plot, Springheel :D I will try this out and see what happens, but this will take a little longer, since I started to work again.

 

In the meantime I would appreciate any feedback (negative as positive) to the current state via forum or PM. With that I can add it to the next update too, which will take a while anyway.


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#46 SeriousToni

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 02:57 PM

You are very creepy and you do even creepier things to unconsciousness people. :huh:

 

Give me creepy feedback please :D


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#47 Anderson

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 11:57 AM

I wonder if there is a way to have a different sound for if the ragdoll hits the deck at a higher than "normal" speed.

Maybe it is not how most people play it but I like to drag all the unconscious people into a pile up high, then lob them all over the edge - it's especially fun on castle or cathedral missions - dropping them on the people below.
Sometimes you can get a knockout, but it never scares anyone into running away.

Maybe because there is no sound that plays that can cause them to go, "omg that is scary, i will run for help instead of start searching a small area around the body". (idk if a sound can trigger something, but that would be good for creep alarms).

The best falls, though - you can't hear them hit the bottom. You just see the splat (no decals). So maybe it is not necessary to have a sound for it at all.

 I also have to admit a satisfaction in that. Don't know how Hollywood would make it but in real life it's something like this:

Spoiler


Edited by Anderson, 11 March 2016 - 01:11 PM.

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 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#48 Springheel

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 12:15 PM

Wow, maybe you could put that behind a "mature content" link?



#49 Anderson

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 01:12 PM

Wow, maybe you could put that behind a "mature content" link?

Done


 "I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

 

 

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

 


#50 SeriousToni

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 05:07 PM

Dude, please delete that sh*t in respect of the concerned people - WTF, you can't be serious with that... I'm really disappointed of you posting this here.

 

EDIT: Even to bring that video in connection with something you say is "satisfaction" is even more disgusting really. Please delete it!


Edited by SeriousToni, 11 March 2016 - 05:09 PM.

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