chakkman

It's not just an issue when they're crouched.

Do you realize how little helpful you are? Especially when I quote someone who had the same issues in this mission with a specific type of enemy. But, suuuure, it's just a skill issue. That's why this topic came up so often over the years. Let's just end this now though. You will never be able to accept that there is an issue with the blackjack system. It's fine, and it doesn't matter. What matters if that people do have issues with the blackjacking. And, if you allow me one last personal thing: It was absolutely fkn annoying to have to quicksave and quickload every time I missed a blackjack again in this mission. The mission is one of my absolute favorites, but, the blackjacking really sucked the life out of me in this one. It's absolutely frustrating to again and again have to re-load, and it's the one thing which seriously frustrates me about this mod in general. Everything else is on par, or even an improvement over the original games, except the blackjacking. It's beyond horrible. Even with the blackjack indicator, which doesn't work reliable either, by the way. The indicator didn't indicate that I was in a position for a successful K.O. even if the K.O. was successful. I don't know WTH is wrong with the system. Much too sensitive, much too dependant on the range and point of impact. It doesn't make sense in a game where you can't judge the distance as if you would in virtual reality, or in real life. It should be much more forgiving, and less sensitive.

I didn't know that you made a research study on the subject. But, jokes aside, I think we're running in circles, aren't we? I could as well argue that, just because you have no problem with it, or act like there isn't a problem, doesn't mean that the majority of peple don't have a problem with it. Blackjacking in TDM always worked very different to blackjacking in the original Thief's. I never had an issue with blackjacking in the original Thief's, but, since I play TDM (which is probably 13 to 14 years now), I had a lot of issues blackjacking in it. That's all I can say. Maybe my blackjacking skills magically vanish whenever I boot TDM. IDK. Or maybe blackjacking just plain sucks in TDM.

Re-playing this, I had a lot of issues with blackjacking them. Not just when they're squatting down, also when they're standing or walking. 9 out of 10 blackjack attempts failed. But then, blackjacking is the #1 issue of The Dark Mod in general anyway. It just doesn't work well. Seemed to be even (quite a bit) worse with the apebeasts though.

I'm re-playing this mission, and have trouble finding the

I didn't say that they don't have to overlap at all. I said that 3 guards at the same time in the same place, potentially even blocking the doorway is a bad thing, and has happened to me in TDM in the past. I don't remember such occasions being that much of an issue in the original Thief's. In general, obviously, TDM was created to be much harder. The A.I.'s senses are more sensitive, in most missions there is more A.I., in most missions there is at least 1 or 2 elite guards (which really should only be the highest ranked watch officers, guarding things like safes, or the primary loot object in missions), blackjacking is harder, and pretty random (I noticed that again yesterday, when some guards simply couldn't be knocked out in the first 4 or 5 tries, and then somehow got knocked out easily where I didn't even think I could knock them out. The blackjack indicator also only helps a bit, there can be times where it indicates that you can knock a guard out, and then when you press the key, the knockout is already off again. It's really weird, and I don't think I will find out how blackjacking works in TDM in this life.). Especially for people who blackjack every living thing, predictability is a critical thing, also in regards of hiding bodies. Again, I don't expect everything to me completely predictable, and, of course a guard can sometimes stop by the fire, or chat with another stationary guard. But, 3 or 4 variations of a route are bad.

Nothing wrong with that. What's bad is if A.I. changes their patrol route, and something like I've encountered in a few missions happens: 3 A.I.'s in the same room at the same time, even though they all have their general patrol route. That makes no sense at all.

Finally, someone who says it. Especially in stealth games, the A.I. has to be predictable to a certain degree, otherwise you really can scratch your planning and approach. Plus, it's more realistic for guards to have fixed paths anyway. No point in letting them guard places where 3 or 4 of them stack up, and leave the other areas unguarded. That said, the A.I. in most missions works predictably (fortunately).

I have no idea why there's such a hype over such A.I.'s. A computer always has been something for me which should complement the human mind, not replace it. When I read that A.I. composes symphonies, and does other art stuff, then I shake my head, and think of sci-fi movies, not of something which is actually useful. Human creativity is the antithesis to anything machine made. Especially when it's simply based on a database of collected knowledge, nothing which is based on actual human behavior (yes, I know, they try to "simulate" that, but, it's still very basic). I would say "Wake me when you're through", but, like with so many things these days, I'm afraid that it's a long-running craziness, not something which is done tomorrow. For me, it's the completely wrong direction, and a total waste of time.

Oh, yeah, now that you say it, I missed the codes in the computer node rooms as well. TBH, more of an issue with modern games though... so much detail that you can easily miss the interactive stuff.

FWIW, I wasn't THAT fond of the first level (Medical) either. After that, it gets better and better.

I know what you mean. Nonetheless, I think it's the right way. Games should make you think. And, if you use a notepad alongside your keyboard, I don't think it's a bad thing. I actually had more issues with recognizing interactive elements in the game world. For example, I would have completely missed that you can interact with the diagnostic log machine, after you did some other stuff (it doesn't really react before that). Or the machine where you can scan the human head you found (which you can easily miss as well). Oh, and regarding System Shock 2: It's an insanely good game. I would rate it a bit higher than the SS 1 Remake, but, they're both great.

I re-played this, and just finished it. Really nice, classic mansion mission. Again, I didn't really care for the K.O. limitation (I played on the medium difficulty, and I just knocked everyone, ignoring the failed optional objective), but, I accomplished all the other optional objectives. I like that this mission feels so polished, it seems well tested. Nonetheless, the one thing I'd definitely criticize about it is the K.O. limitation objective. It just doesn't make sense to limit the player's approach that way (and it doesn't make sense from the mission perspective either). Really can't stress that enough. Please give the player all the options to play his way, and don't force the player to play your way. Cardinal error in my opinion.

You will like it.

Is a mission which was declared as "abandoned" also autmatically declared as "others may continue to work on it"? Sorry, don't want to cause even more confusion.

I noticed that it works reliably when you look up when you drop the body. Even when you're crouched.

Unfortunately, they wouldn't do it if the majority of players wouldn't want their hand to be held... Every single game I played back in the days said "Figure me out and learn me". But, that changed at some point in the mid to late 2000's. I think it's safe to say that most don't want to figure out and learn stuff, but get everything spoon fed, or they will smash the gamepad to the wall after 5 minutes. Games like System Shock, or also the Cyan Worlds games (played through Firmament recently) surely will stay niche. It's so unfortunate, because, the majority of players obviously totally miss what's fun about games. They want to watch a movie, and think and do stuff as little as possible, it seems.

It's also cool to see that the press and the players didn't trash it for what it is, but actually embraced (for the most part at least) the "I don't hold your hand" attitude of the game. Maybe there's still hope for the gamer audience.

Stupid question: Has there ever been a third mission in this series? I can only find "A new Job" and Tears of St. Lucia.

This. There's really no need to pack everything into this game. I already scratch my head about all those tons of super "useful" suggestions, and even additions to the code (presented in a really aggressive "add it, or I will be very disappointed because I spent so much work on it" manner) by some hyperactive users here (no, I won't name names ). I hate bloat. Focus on a few gameplay elements, which fit to the theme of the original Thief games, but, don't make this a boring feature monster, which does everything, and nothing really in depth and good. If you really want such stuff, do a mod or something, but, please, keep it out of the base game.

And I always wondered why I have to set gamma so low in-game, with a monitor with a near perfect gamma. In most games, I don't have to do that. 9 out of 10 display absolutely perfect, and I don't have to change anything.

You should check your brightness and gamma settings then. If you can't see the blackjack or other weapons, you definitely set it too dark. If you didn't know it already, the pre-installed Training Mission has a section where you can set brightness and gamma.

Which one? A Machine for Pigs? It's unfortunately the weakest part of the series (pretty dumbed down gameplay and incomprehensible story), and, it also wasn't developed by the original developer which developed The Dark Descent, Rebirth, and, now, The Bunker. The also did Penumbra, which is really great (seriously, I highly recommend that if you like Amnesia), and SOMA.

That was immediately obvious to me when I saw it. Which was part of the reason I asked the original question, because, it seemed like an old mission to me which he continued to work on.

If my ears don't deceive me, the narrator's voice. By the way, I don't have a horse in this race, and don't want to hold a discussion about it, but, how do you keep it? Let's say there is a mission planned and multiple parties are involved. The mission is on hold for years, due to people formerly involved in the mission don't work on it anymore, have gone inactive, or else. Someone chooses to pick up on it, and continues to work on it. Will he be free to do what he wants with the mission, granted the people originally onvolved are OK with it? Do you expect to be credited when the mission is done? Do you see your work or art as closed source, unless someone asks for permission to use it? I always thought, with the mod being open source, and so many openly available contributions to the assets, it would more or less mean that people are also allowed to work and pick up on old, discontinued missions, and don't have to ask for everything. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that.