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Thanks Saxmeister! I'll try this out. PS: FINALLY! Something Sparhawk is not good at or doesn't understand! PPS: Just created some sample files using this cool effect. See the following thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14256

I think we would still see a fur silencer, maybe not in the drawing animation, but in the "non-drawn" state when you have just selected the bow and walk around without drawing. Looked for illustrations of the "silencer," and so far what I found was this: So one of these near the top of the bow would probably be fine if we wanted to add fur silencers (the player probably never sees the bottom of the bow) Again I don't think we NEED this or anything, I just remember a thread a while back asking about why the "twang" of the bow wouldn't give you away, and these things supposedly reduce that noise to a fourth of what it is without them. It makes sense that someone wanting to be quiet would use them. Also, I wanted to get this suggestion in while the bow modeling is going on. [edit - So for now, it's a non-issue, but maybe when the modeling for the final in game bow is being done, it could be considered ]

That depends on where the player shoots it. It shouldn't stick into the floor, so this means that the model has to be cut dynamically. There is a thread on Doom3world about how to create meshdata on the fly or manipulate meshdata in game. The length should be about 2 and a half stories at maximum.

Just throw in however many joints you think looks right. The model will stretch and shrink in-game, and we can decide how many joints we need for the maximum length to look right. For now, anything will do. Make it 5 or something. Here, please have a read of this http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=1052&hl= It describes what the rope will be, in detail.

Sorry I've been away so long oDDity. You are correct, the weapons you see in first person view are NOT the same models or animations you see when the weapon is lying around. It is a whole new model. Every weapon, including the hands holding it, is a new md5mesh, with individual md5anim files that go with it. Even though we think the arrow is the weapon, the bow is part of the weapon too. The bow only exists in the animation, as an aesthetic thing. You dont' have a "bow" weapon with different "firearrow" "waterarrow" ammo - you have whole new weapons - a "waterarrow" weapon, a "firearrow" weapon, etc. Although since the only thing that might chance between arrow weapons is the colour of the head, you could probably pass new materials to the same mesh and anims in the def file for each arrow weapon - they are doing something SORT OF like this with the existing weapons - different materials can make parts of the mesh disappear, but I think you just discovered that out for yourself. Otherwise, the entire bow, arrow, and hands, are all one mesh, and there is a totaly new one of these meshes for each arrow weapon. But even in this case, since all the arrow weapon models have the same number of joints, the animation files can be re-used. BTW, excuse my suggestion for "weapon animations" in my new "rope" thread in the 3D modeling board. I didn't see this thread until now.

Let's stick to the T2 method for the initial release, hey? No extra animations, and people will just be happy to see it back the way it was. This is certainly one object which I think the functional side of it can't really be discussed to any useful point, other than to just say "it's magic" and leave it at that. At least for the initial release. Besides, I haven't seen any work from the modelers that involve ingame animation and rigging up the ragdoll physics, which I think we really need to have soon. What I REALLY REALLY want right now, is a simple rope, with the joints rigged up correctly to env_rope.af (the articulated figure file, that makes it flop around realistically, like a ragdoll.) See the details in the thread I posted in the 3D modelling board.

For now I'm going to spawn the hanging light for the rope, but its going to get in the way, with the huge light fixture at the bottom. It would be really good to have a working rope mesh to work with. We have a lot of aesthetic models, but nothing functional. No weapons or anything. Does anyone else think that the modelling really has to start to focus on the things us programmers are going to have to test with? Modelers will need to go here http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14120 to see my post on how to find the good tutorials, and learn how to name joints ready for rigging in the game to rag-doll physics, which is what I need for the rope arrow. Well the direct link to the tutorials is here http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic...3017&highlight= Just remember to follow my tip (in that post I linked to) about scrolling down PAST the video tutorials till you get to the text tutorials. Then scroll down to the modelling section, it has the info you guys should need. (If you see "modelling the plasma tick" then you're in the right section) (Also there is how to get animated models in the game, which you guys will need to know to make the weapons) Well the most pertinent link I could find quickly is this http://www.planetdoom.com/leveled/videotut...ain/index.shtml Which actually has tutorials on animating and rigging. However, they're all video tutes. They are all about 20mb, but you should only need the one that has rigging in it (down the bottom). I'm sure if you search, you'll find some text based tutorials. I found built in stuff for a ROPE in Doom 3 - yes a rope, that has physics applied to it and everything - however you can't climb it, it's just another form of rag doll. What it does mean is that probably the hardest part of the "visual" part of the rope has been done already, but the game is missing a rope mesh. Looks like they half implemented it and didn't make the mesh. So all you guys really need to do is model a rope mesh with the appropriate number of joints, and name them correctly. But I'm going to tell you guys how to look into the parts that links your model to the physics in game. At the very least, you can see where your joint names need to match up with what's listed in the .af (articulated figure) files. Either you'll have to make your own .af files, or at least give us programmers a list of joint names in your model. So here's how to get your hands dirty by looking at .def files. There's no programming in there, its just a bunch of file name associations and settings for individual objects. It's where meshes and animations are linked to the in-game objects. In pak000.pk4, there is a folder called "def". That is where all the def files are. The one with the rope in it is called "env.def". Open it and search for rope. Here you can see it is pointing to mesh files at models/md5/environments/ropemesh.md5mesh and models/md5/environments/ropeanim.md5anim But if you go to the "models" folder (in one of the other pak files, I can't remember which one), you'll see that neither of those files exist. You'll see a line that says "articulatedFigure" "env_rope.af" To get to the env_rope.af file, no need to delve through pak files - in the Doom 3 editor, type "editAFs" in the console tab. It brings up a window where you edit "articulated figure" properties. Choose "env_rope". Now you can see a bunch of settings, but really, I think I will take care of the details there. But you guys should know about it because I THINK that's where you start telling the game what you named your joints when you were modelling. That's pretty much all I can tell you for now. The rest should be found by searching www.doom3world.org or the rest of the web. The link I put up there is still a good place to start.

TYROT has a little too much on his plate right now, so he's asked that I assign the lightgem to someone else. Here's what we need: A lightgem model based on the first design on the page: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=703&hl= The design should stay fairly close to this, although there is room for modification. Specifically, the gap between the outer ring and the lightgem isn't necessary. Adding certain design elements from either oDDity's or Atti's model would be fine. The gem and the compass should be modeled separately, even though they should look like one model when on screen. The gem will have 16 different textures (from light to dark). The metal parts should be textured in a dark and rough fashion, like oDDity's version on the page above. Only one spike (the North one) should remain smooth and shiny. The gem itself should be very similar to Oofnish's version, as everyone quite liked this look. Any takers? Now that Spar has the lightgem more or less working, it would be great to have the actual model in-game.

I could use some bits and pieces from that floorplan, but I've already got Goldfish doing some concept art and plans for my mansion mission. I envision it as being a bit more humble than what BT had shown, but still nice and atmospheric...the best example comes from the Marsden Archive (where I've based quite a few of my recent ideas): I like the style, it fits perfectly with what I had in mind from the beginning. A fairly wealthy nobleman of some standing who's family is currently slipping into ruin. They're on their last leg and have definately seen better days, but they still hold enough power at the moment to be somewhat of an influence in the city.

Yes. You can throw punches from different sides and do a counter-attack, which usually leads to death of your enemy I just recently (not a week ago) played the game through. Here're some of my thoughts: What I didn't like about it was the feeling of me running in a tube. The levels were too narrow and pretty straight forward. You never really got any choices to make, saying which road to go. And in a sneaking game that's pretty much the worst thing you can do IMO. I did like the whole Riddick character. Anti-heros are always my thing. And yes, Vin Deasel do rock your socks, and so does the other voice actors. Also liked the 'preying mode'. Kinda succesfull. The HUD is pretty much perfect: when you're just running along without no combat or anything, there's nothing disturping you on the screen. Very well done. (Take a hint Dark Mod team. Oh, and when you were hanging on a rail and moving sides-to-sides the view throwed you in the 3rd person mode. Otherwise it's always 1st person. This system could allow you guys to make the Dark Mod game environment even more usefull, like I've stated in my previous topic -> http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=679 This way it wouldn't look bad to make the thief more acrobatic. The drawback is of course can the thief fans take it. Overall it was worth the 36 euros I payed for it, but it could have been A LOT better.

Here you go.

I'm voting for magic also. That explains how the rope always falls just the right amount, and how the arrow launches it. I suppos it _COULD_ be a very thin thread with a high tensile strength, but then it would probably cut thru your hands when you tried to climb it. Also, this would have to be something naturally occuring (like spidersilk) or made by magic. I don't think we want to give our world the technology to create carbon nanotube fibers... WE can't even do that yet.

I like GIMG's barbed head idea. The pitchfork one is a nice idea, but just doesn't do it for me from a visual standpoint. As for the unraveling of the rope, I'm with NH in that it'd probably be better to leave this one to magic. And something has come to light in this thread that I hadn't thought about. Remember my noisemaker concept? It had a barrell. With it being at the front of the arrow, would it still be launchable or would it get in the way? I can see if it was at the back of the arrow it would immediately be a problem. But with it at the front, I think there's a chance we'd be okay.

As you all know, the division leaders are trying to refocus everyone's attention on the first milestone for The Dark Mod. Essentially, our goal is to provide all the resources necessary for FM authors to begin making genuine mansion maps. Some of these mappers could then work in tandem with us, designing workable maps as we continue to work on coding and other things. We already have a great collection of models, thanks to our fine (and speedy) modeling team. This message is basically to update our progress, and see what is still needed before the May 1st deadline. GAME READY MODELS In order to be 'game ready' a model needs to be textured, and must also have a collision model or working bounding box (for simple items). Now, I can't tell from screenshots whether this is done or not, so I'm going to have to rely on you guys that when you post something as 'game ready', it actually is. Our biggest issue right now in being done by the release date is getting objects textured. Those of you capable of texturing your own models, if you could switch your focus from new models to texturing the ones that are already done, that would be helpful. MODELS YET TO GO The list below are the models on the mansion pack list that are (as far as I know) not yet completed (textures aside). The ones with stars beside them have not been assigned yet. I am not including the AI, since we are only concerned about getting two (1 combat and 1 non-combat) into the game for the first milestone. (update: Jan25th) - door handle/lock * desk chair - fancy sofa - soup bowl * spectacles - tapestry - hunting trophey (mounted head) - wash basin * door knocker - Small chest - Large chest * cooking cauldron - torch bracket * music box Basic Gameplay Models needed: * lever * rope arrow (awaiting concept art) Obviously, not everything on this list is crucial for the first release. Some things, however, like the chests and the door handles, are fairly significant and should be included. We should try to finish all these before moving on to other things, however. If you know you signed up for one of these, please let me know what its status is. I know we all have a tendency to take on a lot of things and then forget some in the shuffle, so if you know you don't have time for something you signed up for, let me know and I'll reassign it. Anyone looking for something new to model, please focus on this list until we get them all done. (I've updated the Mansion Pack request forum as well to make it a little easier to see what still needs to be done. Remember a lot of reference pics are available in that thread).

Heres some various Victorian Styled objects. I'll keep posting miscellaneous objects in this thread.

I didn't want to post this in the other elite thread for developement is flying so fast in these threads that the concept may have been missed. I think if the city guard emblem (bird symbol) was also textured on top of the large pauldrons on this concept it might turn out nice. That little niche would add to the more elaborate feel of the elite guards and would help to distinguish them from the average guards.

How did I miss this thread? Brilliant model Oddity!

now that's why we dont give access to our forums for any greenpeace activists... btw do i underand correctly that you throw these things together on one day?

Hi guys, I'm a friend of Renzatic's, he asked me to post something here. He said you guys are looking to build a new website with a system that would allow you to manage and track workflow. I build content management systems professionally, and I absolutely love the Thief games, so I can help in this regard if it's needed. So in a nutshell, here's what I can and can't do: What I can do: - Database-driven web management systems. If you guys want something to monitor and control workflow, assign tasks, update team members on job status, etc I can build that. I'll need more detailed requirements of course, so I know what you want it to do. I would prefer to build it in ASP and mySQL, but PHP is also an option if people really want that. - Basic web design. I can make simple but elegant websites. Something like http://sscar.musicexplosion.net/site/ is do-able (Renzatic pointed me to that, it's another Doom 3 mod). - Remain committed to the project. I've been bitching to Renz for months that I want to see the Dark Mod completed. I love the Thief games, and if I can help bring the Dark Mod to reality I would be very happy. - In the long-run, basic C++ AI programming. It's been a while since I used C++, but I did take some university courses on AI and if you guys want help on that, I could try. I've never done any game programming though so I don't know how much use I would be. I have a BSc in Computer Science, if that matters (I would say it doesn't). What I cannot do: - Graphics-heavy websites. I am not very skilled with graphics. Now if someone else made the images I could certainly use them. But I wouldn't be able to come up with something like http://www.thief2x.com by myself, that's a bit out of my league. I'm a web systems programmer, not a graphics artist. - Flash. Yuck. - Game textures, modelling, animations, sounds, etc. I wouldn't know where to start. So anyway, if you guys are interested let me know. I can build a (non-functioning) prototype / mockup, to see if you guys like it. I read the other "I will build your website" thread, and.... uh, I won't be like that guy. If you don't like it I won't freak out. Just please, please don't let this become Yet Another Unfinished Mod.

Yeah. On dogs we already had an older thread where I proposed this. I still think this would be a good idea, but if we decide to do this we will not do it now. And of course there is always the issue of animation.

Ah, I missed the 'private' reference. The bow threw me off, actually. I thought the private guards would have crossbows, since they were going to be more likely to be indoors. I like the changes. As for the helmet, I'll wait and start a seperate thread for that.

You know you're playing too much Thief when... ..you start making posts on internet forums entitled 'You know you're playing too much Thief when...'

I agree. I had tried to do that in the concept art already. Maybe that would be all it takes then. Rather than giving elite city watch 3 different weapons, I'd rather just make them really effective with the weapons they have. They can draw and fire a bow faster than a regular guard, and with better aim. They can swing their sword faster than a regular guard, and may have special kinds of attacks that other guards don't have. They may feint, as well, to get past a parry. I don't think we can give them shields if they are also going to have bows, unless it is a small buckler of some kind. As for the elite mercs, I think people's points about big swords indoors are probably valid. So my vote would go for a really nasty looking morningstar. It could use the same animation as hammers/axes, and it's a weapon that would make me think twice about combat. I have some other thoughts, but I think I'll start a new thread for that.

I agree wioth that Atti. Elite guards are not just tanks, they are better in every way than the regular guys, so I think you should make them look different from the regualr guards but not so armoured. They are better becasue of their superior fighting skills, teamwork and morale. I want these guys to be able to chase the thief as well. Also I think it would be a good idea to start an ideas thread about a charcater before drawing/modeling it like I did with the haunt, then we can get these points in before we spend time on a drawing/modeling.

Taking the ideas in this thread I've come up with this. THe idea is he's been cast out of the order, tied up in chains and drowned as execution, he has some ceromony peformed on him trapping his soul in his body so it'll never reach the Master Builder. He stays underwater quite a long time before the chains rust enough to break and allow him to move around again. Let's be fair to him, all that nonsense would put anyone in a bad mood, so now he's back and he isn't happy...