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I'd like to be a mapper for the Dark Mod if possible. I've played all three Thief games and I think Doom 3 is my favorite engine to map for. As an example of my work, I made a post (as Gildoran) a while back giving a link to a map (well, room) I made, though nobody responded, so I figured maybe I should email you. Yesterday/today I got around to fiddling with my map some more, so I improved the texturing of the room a little. Currently, the map is at: http://www.xprt.net/~wooster/s/d3/delta.pk4 Some screenshots are: http://www.xprt.net/~wooster/s/d3/pic1.jpg http://www.xprt.net/~wooster/s/d3/pic2.jpg http://www.xprt.net/~wooster/s/d3/pic3.jpg To view the room, put delta.pak in its own directory, run it as a mod, and type "map volunteer" from the console. The idea is your boss moved your office to a storage closet (which was previously a tunnel access point). I'm a newbie to Doom 3 mapping, so I don't know the most effective ways to do things, but I think I can learn quickly, especially if there's people who can answer my questions. I've programmed in several languages (including C/C++, LPC, Java, and assembler for a Sun Sparc), and the scripting language for Doom 3 looks easy and fun. I've made a tiny script for the map (in order to synchronize two lights and a sound for the desk lamp and setup a couple of other things). Once I get more experience, I could probably help with GUIs and AI. I haven't worked much with declarations (materials/particle effects/etc) in Doom 3. I understand that materials are usually composed of diffuse/normal/specular maps and know what each one is, but I don't think I could write a good material file or shader any time soon. I have access to a digital camera and live in Oregon (which is often cloudy) so I might be able to help with getting source material for textures. I'm terrible at modelling, and always ended up frustrated whenever I've tried to use a 3D modelling program. The type of maps I'd prefer to make would be indoors or underground, because of how it's easy to block visibility in such maps. However, given that Doom 3 can do scissoring with portals, maybe I won't be so afraid to try my hand at outdoor/city maps. I usually like to come up with ideas for "undead" maps. Thanks for taking time to read this email. If you have problems loading my map, please let me know (the fact that one of the speakers has the "shakes" setting and an ogg file has me a little worried). -Steve Wooster (aka Gildoran)
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At my place of work, the powers that be have seen fit to install Debian Linux on most of the workstation, with Windows XP on a select few. The hardware is identical, yet the Linux machines are consistently slower (Firefox takes five minutes to load on the Linux machines, versus about 2 seconds on the Windows machines), and the Linux machines are constantly locking up, freezing, running slow, and have no software that is half as good as anything you can get for Windows. In comparison, the Windows machines run flawlessly 99% of the time, run Microsoft Office, which in my experience is far more stable and user friendly than OpenOffice.org and all the other Office clones. Maybe Debian is just a bad distro (although I've tried a few on my machine at home and they were no better), but my general experience is that if you want quality, you have to pay for it. None of the open source 3D modelling packages come anywhere near to having the features and support that commercial ones do, and are usually bug ridden to the hilt, for example. There are a lot of open source 3D game engines out there, but in the end you guys chose a very expensive commercial 3D engine to make TDM for, and I am sure you did so because the open source engines just didn't stack up to Doom 3. While open source is a great idea in theory, and there is some very good open source software out there, but most of it seems like it is built piecemeal by amateurs tinkering away in their spare time, and is of very poor quality (that has been my experience so far anyway). I wont argue that Microsoft doesn't have a lot of flaws in their business model, and that they use their market dominance to get away with some very sloppy work at times, and I would certainly agree that they could do a lot of things better, but I haven't had any serious problems with Windows XP, or Office XP, apart from the outrageously large price tag. I do use Thunderbird and Mozzila however - two very adequate open source programs if I may say so, and certainly better than the Microsoft equivalents. But I have had so many more bad experiences with Linux than I have with Windows that I wouldn't touch Linux with a forty foot pole if my employers didn't force me to.. Perhaps the IT department at work is just crap, and Linux really can be made to work well, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet... In terms of quality and stability, I think Apple/Mac wins hands down - OS X is incredibly stable, if only the interface wasn't so dumbed down and irritating, and there was more softtware for it...
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Hey, the hair - how are you going to represent it in the Doom 3 engine? BTW the reason most of you find the anim unrealistic is that the spider is just hovering along and the legs are not pushing the groudn, they are just sliding back and forth regardless of the ground speed. But oDDity said he jus whipped that up in 40 mins so I wouldn't take this anim into account for the final anim.
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Didn't you read the statement from Renzatic? We are going open source as soon as we are progressed enough to have something to release. we are not "standing aside" as you put it. In the meantime anybody who can contribute can join and do some stuff, so it's not exactly closed anyway. Actually we are doing everything on our own. Textures, sounds, models, code, you name it. The only thing which is proprietary is the game engine.
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That's where wall flattening would actually help you realistically [ Edit: Also, hiding in alcoves on the side of a hallway, behind load bearing columns on the sides of the hallway, inside curtains on hallway windows, etc. Again, it's up to the FM author not to screw up the gameplay in their mission. If the author puts in a long, absolutely straight hallway with flat walls (nowhere to hide on the sides) and a brightly lit wall at the end, then yes, it would be hard to go down that hallway and remain unseen, just as it would be in RL. I think the original Thief's deliberately put darker areas at the edges of hallways also to kind've simulate the fact that you're less visible when you stick to the edges of the walls, even tho their engine wasn't up to calculating silhouettes. ]
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Count me in, I'm all for it, but I'll be damn happy even if it's the same old Thief verbatim copied into the new engine, so... Hey, it's a toolkit afterall, which I view as more of a starting point to get folks going than a game with all the mechanics and resources set in stone... Once it's released, you'll be able to put stuff into it all you want...
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Yeah maybe I should have said what I said differently... of course rope arrows are cool, but IMHO vine arrows would be even better, but that's just my suggestion, and not a demand by any stretch Vine arrows would be probably very easy to put in somewhere along the road afterall - no need for drastic changes in the code. My suggestion for vine arrows - perhaps instead of having them stick forever, you could retrieve them, but only by using a knife/dagger/something, which would take a LOT of time. As for the comment on tha game basics being inherently unrealistic - actually I think the game basics are pretty realistic, apart from some elements where taking the realistic route would seriously hinder the gameplay an/or make it too tedious and frustrating - hence the unlimited inventory. Also, some compromises surely had to be made because the engine wasn't advanced enough at that time... my 0.02
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Ditto... that was exactly what I had in mind. But then, I think this is work for the community, once the mod comes out You people are doing wonderful work "converting" Thief into D3 engine, and eventually folks are going to expand it further... And I would prefer flintstone rifles and pistols, because it would mean they would be of little use to Garrett (slow reload time, cumbersome). As for the guards with guns owning Garrett... Well, the point is NOT being seen... Garrett is a thief, not a warrior, remember? As for rope arrows... I agree climbing gloves are more realistic, but rope arrows are INFINITELY more fun, IMO. the perfect compromise would be a grappling hook, but I guess it would be a pain to code. SO my suggestion is, replace rope arrow with a vine arrrow and you're set. Vines are a really novel idea, and they're not altogether unrealistic - apart from the fast growth, but then, fast growth explained by magic isn't all that contrived if you ask me...
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I did a search for it and it would seem that it hasn't been discussed! Anyway does anyone know if anyone has HDR going on the doom 3 engine? And if they did is it too much trouble to get it implemented in the dark mod? I like it's look, but i don't think it would be used heavily in a dark game like doom/thief. for those who don't know what HDR is, it's my understanding that it emulates a persons vision more by adjusting lighting of objects by the lighting of other objects. if the camera has a bright light in view and an object that is in shade, the shaded object seems much darker because of the pupils shrinking to stop so much light coming in and thus the dark objects darken. if the camera moves to a dimmer area it will adjust slowly and everything becomes more visible, again like pupils. This would come into effect in area's with bright lights, the sun (which i guess is also a bright light) and when ever the player forgets to look away from a flashbomb.
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This is good to hear. The more variety and options that you can grant to FM Designers (even though they may have to do a little work ) the better and more diverse their missions will be. I look forward to seeing some of Obscurus' forays into making a Victorian Era Fan-Made experience as much as I look forward to trying to create my own medieval/fantasy ones! If the D3 Engine is as flexible as I hear; it would be great to see some entirely new stuff! Imagine playing a misson where you rob the palace of a pharaoh or the Foro Romano or the Hanging Gardens of Babylon The beauty of a toolset is that it allows anyone to share their own opinion of how they think the game should be made. For me personally it wouldn't matter if certain TDM FM's had no magic or water arrows; so long as I enjoyed them. Think of the Shaleford Cradle, IMO a great map; it was full of Victorian Era elements like electric lighting, hell the idea of an insane asylum is Victorian. The Cradle was great even without fantasy elements. On the other hand in other levels I loved being able to shoot rope arrows into a beam of a high ceiling and drop down on unsuspecting guards below. So long as the map is enjoyable and well-made, magic or not-magic will become a moot point.
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yeah i supose, i was just thinking of the fact that it being so dark alot of the time you wouldn't get it's benefits as often. though i suppose for such a game the effect would be nothing short of spectacular. what worries me is that i read somewhere that you could not get any sort of anti aliasing on a frame if you use HDR rendering. though i'm probably wrong there. does anyone know about a HDR conversion project for doom 3? i spose the engine would need to become open source before that happens. if one springs up it might be beneficial for the team to offer up their support for it early.
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I hope no one would actually play the game with the shadows off, and I hope that the visibility code does depend somewhat on the renderer so that people don't have that sort of cheat available to them... That would utterly defeat the purpose of playing a shadowy stealth game... I do hope a computationally affordable method can be found to take sillhouettes into account... That would really make a difference to me at least Don't forget about AMBIENT LIGHT people, that is the big advantage of lightmaps, they help to give you a more realistic set of shadows, because you can do a realistic global illumination calculation with radiosity or photon mapping. Downside is they aren't dynamic. I guess realtime radiosity is still a while away, but you can simulate it to a degree in Doom 3 with careful use of ambient lighting and non-shadowing fill lights. Unless your map is set deep underground, there will always be a tiny bit of ambient light in a room, even if there are no obvious light sources, so always make sure you adjust ambient lighting in each room to an appropriate level. Does the Doom 3 engine allow you to trigger ambient light levels with a script, so if you doused a torch or switched an electric light off, you can change the ambient light level accordingly?
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Yeah. Some games don't even support it, because the gfx card can not work with such textures. Having the engine autotmatically resizing it, is batter than nothing, but of course this should be avoided, because it can also create lag in worst case scenarios, depending on the map.
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It would work, but the engine would resize it on the fly, meaning your resolution will look crappy.
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Heyya. How exactly does this change the animation in-game? I'm not too familiar with transferring animations into a game engine. Basically in-game it will just keep the feet planted for the frames that you specified when making the animation, Or is there more to it? Walk cycle sketches like this are still helpful references for when things like the passing points of the legs and the joint rotations like hips, knees and ankles occur (although I can't really remember the exact sketches and the images seem to no longer be working). I always have pics like them handy when doing walk/run cycles.
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I see your point but from that thinking every tennis game is the same, every baseball game, every football game. The mechanics are the same, the interactions are set in stone (the rules) But these games don’t go stale because setting and the apposing team is different, the chance of winning is never known. The fps genre cannot change into something it is not. It will always boil down into pointing a gun and shooting. But the setting, the opposition and the difficulty and indeed the rules will change. The plot/story will also change and it is these things that need work. I will agree that many fps games are very similar but stating that all of them are the same and any new ones will be bad is plainly wrong. The evolution and innovation in this genre does have to be increased. INdeed I want a much better plot. I hopig that Remedy does it again with Alan wake (http://www.alanwake.com/) Ritual has produced some of the most interesting and rewarding games in this genre, I have hopes that SIN2 will build on this. If valve were doing it I don’t know if I would be at excited. Yes they know how to rework an ID engine and call it their own, and yes they make a good facial system but their plotting is full of hole's and their endings are right of seventies TV sci-fi. I hope you didnt take offence with my above post I reread it just now and It could read as a bit rude, which I didnt intend.
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Oh woops. I thought it was like Unreal Tournament for example where you model it in quads then the engine triangulates it for you when it puts it in-game. No worries though I'll manage. It was just that I've usually only rigged models that were mainly quads.
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THe model *is* in tris. I modeled it that way, it has to be in tringles for the Doom engine. I think it's pretty clear where the deformations should be anyway. I can install Max and rig it for you.
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Stolen has gotten bad reviews from a lot of places besides gamespot... general consensus is that it is crap... I think we should all go and play it so we know how NOT to make a stealth game. I actually liked most of Splinter Cell, in spite of it's extreme linearity and scriptedness. A deeply flawed game, but still enjoyable, for me at least... I am thinking of buying the PC version of SC:Edge of Chaos, it is quite editable I hear, it might be possible to make a decent stealth game with the engine (although it no doubt has all of those nasty console limitation)...
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The curtains in Splinter Cell looked to me like they were done with rigid body physics and about 3 - 6 bones per curtain - a reasonably well done hack ... I don't know how expensive that sort of thing would be to do in the D3 engine, but you might be able to get a reasonably good approximation by making a curtain mesh of say 4 by 8 verteces, and giving it a U shaped link of bones... I haven't played around with this sort of thing much so I guess I might be on the wrong track, but I think it is worth playing around with if anyone has time, and if you use them sparingly inlocations where there is not much else going on, it might be worth it...
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The last days i work with the editor. A found substract, vertex editing, and how possible select brushhes these under some other brushes!!!!! The resize is very good, i could work 2 times faster than dromed. Only the lighting not good for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! doom3 engine use pixel sized realtime lights. This Eat much cpu power (10-25 framerate plus when i off the shadows) and not look too good!!! In first time when i look projected shadow i think how i look some grafical erorr!!!!!!!!! I used shadow off option in system/advanced menu, in doom3 and the framerate is good. when i on the shadows, the performance boosted!!!!! I think in darkmod impossible off shadows options, if possible, cause less shadows, more difficult the hiding!!!!!! And the mods several times slower than modded game. This slowness plus shadows cause how darkmod not enough fast on my poor machine p2 2.4 512 mg ati 9600 xt! ANd additin how realtime shadow not enough nice:( The lightmaps very good things in games unfortunately doom3, and t3 not use ! (
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Caulk is just a texture you apply to a brush which means that the engine ignores anything outside it kindofthing. It used to be used to optimise performance in pre-Doom 3 engines. But now you DO NOT NEED IT.
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Well this engine will have quite enough processing going on without throwing cloth physics into the mix
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If I spend money for an engine it would have to include the sourcecode. But since there are no engines we could afford with that, IMO D3 is a pretty good choice.
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I dunno if anyone has seen the virtual displacement mapping mod (paralax mod) for doom 3, this mod if properly used with custom textures could add a great amount of detail to the mod. basically it allows for artificial depth in textures that enhances the already spectaular lighting engine.