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settings bug

stumpy

By stumpy
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Fidcal

Fidcal

Posted
Posted

If I set the game to easy or hard, then the settings stay that way, but if I pick expert by the end of the game its gone back to hard. It seams to set to hard as soon as I start a mission even thou I've picked the expert setting.

Which FM is this?
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Ishtvan

Ishtvan

Posted
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I had this problem also in both Return to the City and Business as Usual. I set expert at the start, then a little into the mission I checked my objectives and they had gone back to hard or possibly easy. I read somewhere that doing a non-quicksave save before checking objectives would fix it, but that didn't seem to work either. Apparently it also broke the final objective of the map in Business as Usual, but not RTTTC.

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Fidcal

Fidcal

Posted
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Exactly. Both of this FMs as I recall have shop_skip 1 which causes the bug. I believe Return declares it in the readme or somewhere probably at the start of its thread. The solution is to set shop_skip 0 and have an empty shop which is better than this bug.

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Melan

Melan

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FWIW: An empty shop is considered a pretty severe design error among a lot of Thief FM fans for some reason. :unsure:

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Springheel

Springheel

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FWIW: An empty shop is considered a pretty severe design error among a lot of Thief FM fans for some reason.

 

I don't see why. I actually appreciate the chance to see what my starting equipment is, so I don't have to spend the first few seconds of the mission scrolling through everything.

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Ishtvan

Ishtvan

Posted
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I don't see why. I actually appreciate the chance to see what my starting equipment is, so I don't have to spend the first few seconds of the mission scrolling through everything.

 

Yeah, that makes sense to me as well. Maybe what looks bad is the empty list of things to buy on the right side? Would it be better if we just hid the right-side list in the event of no shop, or put up some GUI image of a closed shop? :)

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Fidcal

Fidcal

Posted
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I think we just have to accept different points of view because no amount of discussion will change those views and at the end of the day the mapper chooses how his FM will look. My own view is that an empty shop looks broken and unprofessional and does not necessarily tell you what starting equipment you have anyway. I was the one who pushed and pushed for the shop skip feature because to me an empty shop is a bad flaw. However, it is a cosmetic flaw whereas the difficulty bug it causes is a serious practical flaw.

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Tels

Tels

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I think we just have to accept different points of view because no amount of discussion will change those views and at the end of the day the mapper chooses how his FM will look. My own view is that an empty shop looks broken and unprofessional and does not necessarily tell you what starting equipment you have anyway. I was the one who pushed and pushed for the shop skip feature because to me an empty shop is a bad flaw. However, it is a cosmetic flaw whereas the difficulty bug it causes is a serious practical flaw.

 

Yeah, I think that FMs should be able to have an empty shop, but it should at least list your starting equipment. Also, some players may *want* to drop their BJ or sword or some arrows, so allowing them to drop (non-essential things) would be considered good.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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SneaksieDave

SneaksieDave

Posted
Posted

Maybe a design which changes based on the setting? If skipping the shop, show the text modified a bit to be only "Starting Equipment" so there's no confusion about whether or not it's an empty shop bug.

 

Also as Tels mentions, the ability to start without equipment is one of our designed-in features, not a bug.

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Springheel

Springheel

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My own view is that an empty shop ... does not necessarily tell you what starting equipment you have anyway

 

There's no reason for it not to, is there?

TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle  *  A Reputation to Uphold  *  A New Job  *  A Matter of Hours

Video Series:   Springheel's Modules  *  Speedbuild Challenge  *  New Mappers Workshop  *  Building Traps

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Fidcal

Fidcal

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Apart from the disinclination of mappers and the lack of knowledge of how to create a special definition for items not previously defined (eg, a message) some items needs referencing in the game, eg, by an objective or script. I recall when testing spawning a master key that it doesn't work because I couldn't predict the entity name. My guess is that there is a way round this, probably with a script perhaps. Mappers are often happy just to create the stuff in the map and go straight to the game rather than have the hassle though.

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aidakeeley

aidakeeley

Posted
Posted (edited)

If it is anticipated that some may want even less equipment than the FM author would 'give' them... then why not make everyone happy and...

 

'Require' a shop.

Have the player not 'have' any equipment (they must choose to buy any and every thing they want).

 

 

So it is always all optional from the beginning?

Edited by aidakeeley

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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