Grass edge revisited (yet again!)

[Bikerdude]

I havent a got nearly enough knowledge on this subject, but...

 

How about a blur based decal patch..? that will blur together any two textures it intersects with..?

[Fidcal]

Somehow I don't think it would work. I reckon you'd just get a blurred strip - plus I don't know how to do it.

[Fidcal]

Just wondering what these keywords do. Tried them at the start of the shader but just get a console error.

 

forceHighQuality

nomipmap

nomipmaps

nopicmip

[Bikerdude]

Fids, how did Jdude get the grass stone path done in the training map..?

[nbohr1more]

nomipmaps seems to be a flag that says "Don't generate mipmaps"

nomipmap doesn't come up in any searches so that one may be invalid?

 

http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/ForceHighQuality_%28Material_stage_keyword%29

Edited July 5, 2010 by nbohr1more

[rebb]

When in doubt about material keywords, consult http://www.iddevnet.com/doom3/materials.php .

 

Those keywords you mentioned are all stage-specific, so they can't go in the "root" of a material, only inside a stage.

[Fidcal]

That's the page where I got two of them from. I've also tried the keywords at the start and in the next stage but just get an error.

 

@Biker: In the trainer is a large model for the path and surrounding grass. That method works fine if you know how. I wanted to make a method that all mappers could use reasonably easily.

[aidakeeley]

nomipmaps seems to be a flag that says "Don't generate mipmaps"

 

 

[nbohr1more]

Well that's what google says anyway

[Fidcal]

OK, got it to accept nopicmip and nomipmaps without a console error but no noticeable difference to the effect; it still loses the fine detail in the distance upon which this effect depends.

 

BTW this is academic but I had to disable the bumpmap to create a stage for the nopicmip keyword so how would I use them together even if it worked? This is my current shader...

 

      {
       	maskcolor      
         	map makealpha(textures\darkmod\nature\grass\supercrumb10_alpha)
       	alphatest  0.5
//   		scale 1,1
  	}

{
blend diffusemap
nomipmaps
map    textures/darkmod/nature/grass/short_dry_grass_dark
//   bumpmap         textures/darkmod/nature/grass/short_dry_grass_local
}
 }

 

You see I commented off bumpmap else it gave an error. Before I had...

 

    diffusemap      textures/darkmod/nature/grass/short_dry_grass_dark
   bumpmap         textures/darkmod/nature/grass/short_dry_grass_local

 

and that worked OK but then I couldn't insert nomipmaps. I do not understand 'stages' so I generally just blunder through trying stuff.

[OrbWeaver]

As I understand it, mipmaps are largely a performance optimisation, so I'm not sure what the point of an option to disable them is. In any case the texture filtering, and therefore blurring of your fine crumb pattern, is going to happen at long distances whether mipmaps are enabled or not.

 

If you want to test the impact of texture filtering, try setting the cvar image_filter to GL_NEAREST (vid_restart needed). The graphics will look absolutely hideous of course.

[Fidcal]

The problem is that it doesn't blur in the distance - it is totally absent only a few paces away. I was hoping the mipmapping did that and by removing it then there would be a slight performance loss but the crumb and the underlying texture would be properly averaged together.

 

[EDIT] BTW can I rotate the same alpha map in different shader defs? I don't mean have it rotating in game of course but say rotated 90 degrees. That would mean a single alpha map would work with all textures at any angle just by making defs.

[Tels]

The problem is that it doesn't blur in the distance - it is totally absent only a few paces away. I was hoping the mipmapping did that and by removing it then there would be a slight performance loss but the crumb and the underlying texture would be properly averaged together.

 

[EDIT] BTW can I rotate the same alpha map in different shader defs? I don't mean have it rotating in game of course but say rotated 90 degrees. That would mean a single alpha map would work with all textures at any angle just by making defs.

 

Yes:

 

http://www.modwiki.net/wiki/Rotate_%28Material_stage_keyword%29

[Fidcal]

Ah thanks Tels. I might have guessed it would be called 'rotate'. I'll try that. Wonder if there is a scroll? There is still a faint possibility that even thought the method itself is unlikely to be of general use it might be possible to make a custom grass version where the alpha is both shaped with relatively large blades of grass plus the crumb. In the distance where the crum is ineffective hopefully the blades of grass will give enough unevenness to be convincing. If so, then a single alpha image would suffice with two defs and if scrolling works then perhaps 16 defs to give the mapper some freedom or more likely he can quickly make custom defs to align each section if needed.

 

But not today. Today I have my mushroom hat on.

[Tels]

Ah thanks Tels. I might have guessed it would be called 'rotate'. I'll try that. Wonder if there is a scroll? There is still a faint possibility that even thought the method itself is unlikely to be of general use it might be possible to make a custom grass version where the alpha is both shaped with relatively large blades of grass plus the crumb. In the distance where the crum is ineffective hopefully the blades of grass will give enough unevenness to be convincing. If so, then a single alpha image would suffice with two defs and if scrolling works then perhaps 16 defs to give the mapper some freedom or more likely he can quickly make custom defs to align each section if needed.

 

There is indeed scroll

 

Btw, while you did not have much luck with your grass, I did:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/11281-improve-the-lod-system/page__view__findpost__p__222415

 

That is soo exciting! I just feel sorry that we haven't solved your problem yet, but maybe the technique I posted is of other usage for you, too?

 

But not today. Today I have my mushroom hat on.

 

[Bikerdude]

that link dosent work teles

[Fidcal]

Very interesting. But the alphatest value will change for more distant entities. For continuous grass edge probably not so useful. I'm not certain how it helps with separate foliage entities anyway as the distant ones will have a different hard edge to the nearer ones - but still a hard edge. Still, I withhold my scepticism until you have produced a test map.

[Tels]

that link dosent work teles

 

Hm, don't you have access to the internal forums?

[Mortem Desino]

that link dosent work teles

Hm, don't you have access to the internal forums?

I hope not! Secret secrets are secretly secret!

[Tels]

I hope not! Secret secrets are secretly secret!

 

Er, yes, but I thought bikerdude was a team member? Didn't he contribute voices? Man, I am getting old

[Bikerdude]

LOL, I did do some voices, so at best I could be considered a contributor and or beta mapper rather than a member.

 

Edited July 8, 2010 by Bikerdude

[Tels]

LOL, I did do some voices, so at best I could be considered a contributor and or beta mapper rather than a member.

 

 

Well, erm, I think we had members who contributed less We need any help we can get, esp. from people talented as you!

[rich_is_bored]

I've nearly finished my ASE export script for Blender 2.5. How's this for a smooth transition...

 

 

I'll make the plugin available in the next few days once I'm confident it works properly.

[Tels]

I've nearly finished my ASE export script for Blender 2.5. How's this for a smooth transition...

 

 

I'll make the plugin available in the next few days once I'm confident it works properly.

 

That's cool, but is there a reason we couldn't also get this to work from DR => ASE? That would be even more awesome, because could build your patches right in the editor without it ever leaving it.

[OrbWeaver]

There is another script for exporting ASE from DR, but you can't paint vertex colours in DR.