Strider's mapping thread

[Strider]

So I decided to do like Sotha did and post miscellaneous progress/questions/problems and such to a single thread to avoid cluttering up the forum, so here goes.

 

My first question here is about the absence_noticeability property. I'm trying to get it to work on a painting that tears out and leaves the empty frame there, but no matter what I do I can't get the AI to notice it (even when well-lit and sitting a few feet directly in front of him). Is this because the object is replaced with the blank picture frame instead of just being absent altogether, and if so, can I work around that?

 

Edit: After several tries, again with a well-lit item (not a painting this time) placed mere feet in front of an AI, I can't get him to notice the absence. What am I missing?

Edited September 3, 2010 by Strider

[Fidcal]

Yes, I think those paintings work by changing just the skin so the entity is still there but I'm not certain. Alternatively, the problem might be that the remaining frame is obscuring the suspicious marker. Check first that the area is well lit because the AI have to be able to see it.

 

Assuming the area is well lit and it is a problem with these loot paintings, I'll see if I can think of a workaround.

[Sotha]

So I decided to do like Sotha did and post miscellaneous progress/questions/problems and such to a single thread to avoid cluttering up the forum, so here goes.

 

My first question here is about the absence_noticeability property. I'm trying to get it to work on a painting that tears out and leaves the empty frame there, but no matter what I do I can't get the AI to notice it (even when well-lit and sitting a few feet directly in front of him). Is this because the object is replaced with the blank picture frame instead of just being absent altogether, and if so, can I work around that?

 

Edit: After several tries, again with a well-lit item (not a painting this time) placed mere feet in front of an AI, I can't get him to notice the absence. What am I missing?

 

Probably the absence marker is covered by the new, empty frame.

 

Howsabout you make the entire painting stealable? When the player frobs the painting, it disappears like normal loot. Probably would help with the absence marker. Also, does your object have the proper absence_alert property. Maybe the AI sees it missing, but it causes no alarm? One more possibility, is that if the painting is sunk in the wall, the absence marker is inside the wall, thus no alarm.

 

I hope these help!

[Fidcal]

Here's a possible workaround but I've not tested it.

 

• 
   
  
• Create a func_static model with the empty frame skin
  
• Just in front of that frame put some static loot
  
• Give the loot these properties from the loot painting you want:
  
  • model and skin
    
  • inv_icon
    
  • loot type eg, goods
    
  • loot value
    
  • suspicious marker etc
    

 

Test with this well in front of the static frame. The idea is you grab the painting in front exposing the frame behind but with the suspicious marker in front. If it works try pushing the painting back as far as it can so it still works, ie, with the suspicious marker just peeping out from the frame. Hopefully the two frames will line up and only look slightly thicker on close examination but nobody will notice.

[Baddcog]

He's not having problems with the painting, he's having problems making the system work. (even with another brightly lit object)

 

I think it is just a reskin so it's not swapping the model to something else thus getting rid of the properties.

 

Unfortunately I don't know how to make it work... just seems like you guys missed the pont that it's not the painting itself that's causing the problem.

[Fidcal]

Yeah I missed that edit. I can't think what it could be then except a new bug because it used to work. There is not much to go wrong in the setting up. Assuming there is no typo I'd suggest make a test map and add it to bug tracker.

[Strider]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. I'll run a test map that's well lit and everything and fool around with it, just to see if I can get the system to work, then I'll progressively add in the features of the painting that I want. Hopefully that'll let me know where I'm going wrong. Is there a way I can actually edit the absence marker that will be created when the item is taken, or is that entity only created in-game?

 

Will let you know what happens asap...

[Springheel]

My first question here is about the absence_noticeability property. I'm trying to get it to work on a painting that tears out and leaves the empty frame there, but no matter what I do I can't get the AI to notice it

 

It would be helpful if you told us what you had already tried. What spawnargs have you put on the loot entity?

[Sotha]

Is there a way I can actually edit the absence marker that will be created when the item is taken, or is that entity only created in-game?

 

I'd also like to know this. It would be useful in some situations to teleport in absence markers to make the AI crazy.

[Strider]

Okay, so, in hindsight I maybe should have thought of this, but apparently the absence marker absolutely refuses to be lit by candles; for example, a candle sitting immediately next to a loot item on a table (AI standing a couple feet away, directly facing) will not light up the absence marker (the item used in this case was the moveable_loot_chalice). However, a light set to 75 brightness value whose radius extends only about 8 units beyond the loot item (so the chalice was almost totally in shadow) is apparently enough for the marker to be lit and the AI to see it. The ambient_world was set to 4.

 

Now to try to set up the painting..

 

Btw, is there a way to modify the candles so they would light up the marker? I'd much prefer that to another sort of light in this area.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Strider

[Springheel]

I can't think of any reason why a candle wouldn't light up something.

[Baddcog]

Have you tried other light 'entities' like a torch?

 

Right now it seems like light entity candle doesn't work, but regular light does. Just wondering if there's an issue with map start spawn light entities.

 

(I don't know if Fidcal used regular lights around the crown in chalice)

[Strider]

Here's a possible workaround but I've not tested it.

 

• Create a func_static model with the empty frame skin
• Just in front of that frame put some static loot

 

That works! It only needs to be a single unit in front of the static model for the painting to be visible and the marker to be seen by the AI. Now to test it in the actual map.

 

Edit: Works fine in the real map now. Thanks guys. Also, for the record, part of the problem was that the painting was just slightly too high in the AI's field of view -- I lowered it a bit and it works now. Still doesn't answer the candle question, though...

Edited September 3, 2010 by Strider

[Strider]

I can't think of any reason why a candle wouldn't light up something.

 

Yeah, that seemed a little weird to me, too, but the only thing I changed was the lighting: I deleted the pre-made candle entity I'd been using and inserted just a generic light source.

[Strider]

So now I'm wondering how I can add custom sounds to a mission -- nothing fancy like an AI or anything, just something that would be played on a speaker.

[Fidcal]

You need to produce it in ogg format (see wiki for details) plus a sound shader definition (see sound pk4 for examples and also http://www.iddevnet.com/doom3/sounds.php ) Use a speaker in your map to apply it (see wiki)

[Strider]

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

Edited September 14, 2010 by Strider

[Strider]

In need of some help getting sound propagation through transparent (not openable) windows to work -- specifically, there is no sound loss from speakers on the opposite side of the glass. I'm following the directions listed in the wiki, but I'm not clear on step 3 that says "Set the portal attenuation value (again in dB) on the func_location_separator". What is a func_location_separator? I've got the info_locationseparators set up correctly (touching visportals, visportals touching the glass), and I've applied the sound_loss spawnarg, so what's missing?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Strider

[Baddcog]

I actually think that transparent glass cannot block sound.

 

Been awhile but I think the func_loc_sep is a different entity that you put the zone info one. The info from the info_locseps . It's the entity that ties them altogether. So without that the system won't work anyway.

 

I don't think soundloss works that way either. That might have to do with doors. Sorry, it's been about a year since I messed with that.

[Strider]

Hm... Yeah, the only portion of the wiki instructions (on the Sound Propagation: Part 1 page) I wasn't clear on is that func_loc_sep. That article definitely suggests it is possible to have transparent windows that block sound. Too bad the link to the original forum post is broken...

[Fidcal]

Make sure the visportal is working. If it is, remove the glass (or rather resize the brush to a little corner so the window is just an open space like any ordinary doorway with a visportal. If that works then restore the glass but leave a little hole somewhere. I'm just guessing. If this sound location works only within visportalled areas then the only difference with this window is that it has a brush across it. How can it be any different other than that?

 

Whenever I get a situation where something doesn't work that I know does work in other situations then I create such a situation where it does work then gradually change it to how I really want it and note the point where it stops working so I can see why it doesn't work.

[Sotha]

So basically you want an unopenable glass window, which dampens sound, but less than a brick wall?

 

• Make hole in the wall
• Make a window: a glass brush and place it in the hole.
• Make the glass window brush into a door. Either rotating or sliding, doesen't matter.
• Put a visportal inside the window brush.
• Set the window-door entity properties as you want (set the wanted sound dampening, namely the spawnargs which control the how the sound is dampened when the door-window is closed.)
• Then in the end just make the window-door unfrobable.
• Play it safe by making the window-door locked or set "ai_should_not_handle 1." That way the AI won't open the glass if searching for the player.

That's it.

 

EDIT: just gave this another thought and I think this results in a situation where the window looks black since the visportal is closed. Is there a spawnarg for a door to keep visportal open at all times? If there is, the problem should be solved.

 

EDIT: Thought about it some more, and yeah. It should work. All you need to do is to put the visportal in the window hole, but not in contact with the window-door.

 

I hope you get it to work.

[Baddcog]

That's the problem, I clear window with a closed vis-portal is gonna turn black and not be clear anymore.

 

So the glass doesn't even need to be a door anyway, that's only to force it to closed which you don't want.

 

I messed with this before and I'm sure as I posted above that clear glass cannot block sound. The location settings has nothing to do with it either, that just seperates what sounds are in what zones . Other wise it's just a normal portal.

 

So if you use zones you DO have to put a location info and portal at the clear glass. Still won't make it block sound though.

[Strider]

Whenever I get a situation where something doesn't work that I know does work in other situations then I create such a situation where it does work then gradually change it to how I really want it and note the point where it stops working so I can see why it doesn't work.

 

Yeah, I gave that a shot before I posted here on a test map with 2 rooms and a window between them. I thought maybe it was an issue with the shape of the clear glass/visportal, since they're both 22-sided prisms about 8 units thick (like a porthole, basically), but even the perfectly square window on the test map didn't block sound.

 

It seems bizarre to me that this doesn't work -- surely there were some locations in D3 where you'd be looking through clear glass at something happening on the other side and the sound was slightly blocked? Or were those situations perhaps just individually manufactured with different (muffled-sounding) sfx rather than using visportals?

[Fidcal]

So are we saying that a perfectly normal space between brushes with a normal working visportal is of no use for blocking/reducing sounds using the location entities unless there is a door? I see nothing on the wiki about doors being essential. That means it would fail in areas where there are just doorways or in streets where you want ambient sounds in one street but not in the next. There are no doors across the streets. I'm sure it must work without doors.

 

So if my belief is true then it is impossible for a tiny piece of glass on one side of a street that is not even touching a visportal to have any effect on the way the sound is controlled. Since that is true then it is also impossible for it to have any effect if it is a large piece of glass if it is not completely blocking the street.

 

A large piece of glass that almost blocks a street but with a tiny gap must then work (if my above belief is true.) A large piece of glass that blocks a space but with a gap is by definition a glass window. A tiny gap is irrelevant if it is discretely hidden because it makes no difference to the working of a visportal whether it is touching the glass or not.

 

I rest my case.