Model Organization

[Springheel]

I was looking around the models we have available, and I noticed that there are models showing up in the editor that are not in the darkmod directory tree. I can select a lamp called "models/props/lights/lantern/squarestreetlamp.lwo", but when I look in our models/props/lights/lantern folder, there is no such model. So where is this model? I think it's one of Dram's, does that mean it's in a pk file somewhere? Shouldn't it be put in the darkmod folder? It seems like a number of models are missing like this.

 

The second issue is that some models are placed in folders that don't make sense. There is a folder for "loot", but the coin models are in the "misc" folder. A decorative vase is in the "flowers" folder. I assume moving the models to different folders will break maps, so we should decide now if we want to come up with a set organization for them.

[pakmannen]

The second issue is that some models are placed in folders that don't make sense. There is a folder for "loot", but the coin models are in the "misc" folder. A decorative vase is in the "flowers" folder. I assume moving the models to different folders will break maps, so we should decide now if we want to come up with a set organization for them.

I've been naggin about this for ages. Hooray for someone finally agreeing with me

[BlackThief]

the coins don't make any sense indeed - I think they're there since almost the beginning of the mod, don't know why though.

 

I put the vase to flowers, because you can put flowers into a vase

 

it wouldn't cause much trouble, when you change the folder of some objects, because you can simply change the pathes in the map files with a text-editor.

[New Horizon]

Moving the model will break its placement in the map, but won't affect the textures. Just in case there was any worry about that. You can swap them around all you want. So, if we need to do model reorgs over time, it's only going to affect their placement in maps.

[sparhawk]

I had a similar problem with my pianostool. I put it in music because it belongs there, but you could just as well argue that it is furniture. Problem is, that there can always be arguments in some cases where one category fits as well as another. A piano is pretty clear to be in music or a harp, but the associated furniture?

[Springheel]

True, any structure we come up with will have grey areas. But we could make things a lot more coherent and intuitive than they currently are. This is my proposal, trying to keep changes to a minimum:

 

Under main models folder:

 

models/architecture -- windows, pillars, ladders, prefab houses, etc

models/nature -- trees, rocks, mushrooms, non-potted plants

models/chars -- as is

models/doors -- handles, knockers

models/weapons -- all player and AI weapons

models/player_equipment -- potions, flashbombs, lockpicks, mines, etc

models/md5 -- as is

 

 

Under props folder:

 

models/props/furniture -- any furniture not covered below (armoire, bookshelves etc)

models/props/furniture/seating -- chairs, sofas, stools

models/props/furniture/tables -- end tables, dining table, etc

models/props/furniture/beds -- beds

 

models/props/fireplace -- logs, tools, racks, heat shields

models/propr/kitchen -- utensils, pots, food, dishes, water pump, etc

models/props/decorative -- vases, potted plants, statuettes, globe, etc

models/props/decorative/wall -- paintings, banners, curtains, animal heads, etc

models/props/decorative/large -- fountains, statues, etc

 

models/props/loot -- anything that is typically loot: coins, gold vases, purses, gold goblets, etc

models/props/lights/extinguish -- any lights that can be put out

models/props/lights/non-extinguish -- any lights that cannot be put out

models/props/containers -- crates, chests, barrels

models/props/mechanical -- boilers, pipes, clocks, generators

models/props/keys -- as is

models/props/tools -- shovels, brooms, pick-axe, etc

models/props/musical -- any musical instrument

models/props/dungeon -- chains, manacles, torture devices

models/props/wearables -- slippers, hats, spectacles (non-loot)

models/props/junk -- broken glass, chair legs, scrap wood, etc

models/props/graveyard -- skulls, bones, tombstones, crypts, etc

models/props/readables -- books, scrolls, signs, plaques

models/props/misc -- anything that doesn't fit elsewhere, like rope, a wagon, etc.

[BlackThief]

I think your forgot furniture and its subfolders.

[Springheel]

Oops, you're right...added it above.

[New Horizon]

Looks fine to me. I like it.

[Springheel]

So is this something that we want to do? Is this going to be a serious problem for mappers? I'd be willing to do the reorganization if we want to go ahead.

[SneaksieDave]

It's a great idea to get things fixed before it gets later (and harder) to do so.

 

As far as maps, we barely have any - it is no problem at all, much less a serious one.

[sparhawk]

I already created music and you named it musical. So do we have to rename it? music is IMO just as well and it already exists.

Considering the many reorgs we constantly undergo, it would be worth to write a program, that automatically adapts the maps to the new structures.

[Springheel]

No reason not to rename it...your model is the only one in there and I doubt anyone has used it in a map yet (except you, maybe).

 

I'd love to be able to reorganize the material files too, but that would be a lot harder to do. I think I'll just write up recommendations for where to put models in the future.

[Springheel]

Ok, a few other things I've noticed. When working in the editor, calling up models gives you a list of all the TDM folders AND the Doom3 folders mixed together. The "models/weapons" folder has the broadhead.lwo as well as the pistol, chainsaw, etc. There is a "model/outdoors" folder that has a bunch of D3 stuff in it. The model/characters" folder has none of our characters, so where are they?

 

Our beta-mappers have been bringing this up already, but it doesn't make any sense to have our assets mixed in with the D3 ones. I'm not talking about getting rid of the D3 ones, but ours should be in a separate, easy-to-find folder tree. Our textures are all located under a root "darkmod" folder, and I think we should do the same for our models. All the paths for our models would be "models/darkmod/etc.

 

This would mean all of our models could be organized separately from the D3 ones. It also means every map using our models would be broken. What do people think about this?

 

Edit: Things just got a little more confusing for me. While I can see that we have our own "models/weapons" folder, it doesn't show up for me in the editor--I get the D3 one instead. And our "models/chars" doesn't show up either, just the D3 "models/characters"

 

Here's the list that comes up under base/models when I'm using the editor:

 

 

Of these, only the first three are TDM. The one at the end is obviously Gleeful's (not sure why it's a separate folder) and the last Mansion one is full of .ase models that don't appear to work.

[sparhawk]

All the paths for our models would be "models/darkmod/etc.

 

Wouldn't it be better to make our assets all darkmod/models/... instead the other way around?

 

Maybe I'm confusing some paths here.

[Springheel]

Well, the main model path is already "doom3/darkmod/models" when you look it up on the HD. But when you load up the models window in the editor the folders are "base/models/" and then all ours and the D3 ones mixed together. I'm suggesting we make ours "base/models/darkmod" so all our models will be separate from the D3 ones.

 

But I admit I'm not sure about why certain model folders (like darkmod/models/chars) don't show up in the models window. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

[oDDity]

Doom looks for entries in the mtr files to determine what's listed in the editor, it doesn't matter what subfolders are in the models folder if the path is not in included in a shader..

The models int he chars folder are all md5 meshes.

[SneaksieDave]

Either way: Yes. There's no question that this type of thing should be cleared up, with all TDM stuff set apart in it's own tree structure. (Unless what Oddity is saying above is that it can't be?) Changing all of this stuff later will only be harder and more accident prone.

[pakmannen]

Go for it already

[Springheel]

Ok, one last question. I need to know a little more about how D3 gets info about models.

 

models/props/paintings/banner01

 

First, if I change the location of banner01.lwo to models/props/decorations/paintings/(or whatever), do I have to change the entry in the material file as well? Or is that tied to some setting in the model itself? I'm assuming the former but I don't want to mess things up.

 

Second, does the model point directly to the .mtr file? In other words, if I renamed decorations.mtr to decorations_wall.mtr, would that mess up all the models that are referenced in that file?

[BlackThief]

you don't have to change the material name - you can name the material whatever you want it doesn't have anything to do with the location of the model file.

 

second: no the model does only point to the material name - you can name the mtr whatever you want.

[sparhawk]

In the model there is an entry like models/props/furniture/funky_chair.

This name must also exist in one material file. Which one doesn't matter. This name determines where the model will show up in the editor menu (am I right on this?).

 

So if you move the model to a new location and update the material, then the model would still work properly in a map that existed before you moved that location. But if you rename that name, then the model would still be in the same location on disc, but it would be somewhere else in the menu, and consequently a map would break if it refers to the old name.

[Springheel]

Ok, so I change change the name of the mtr file without consequence, that's good to know. I'll probably reorganize them as well to fit the new structure then.

 

So let's see if I have this right. If BT makes a chair model called chair.lwo, then inside the model file is a bit of info that tells D3 to look for an entry "models/props/furniture/chair01". This line can be in any mtr file, it doesn't matter which one.

 

Now, if I move the file 'chair.lwo' to "models/new/newtest/", this has NO EFFECT on the editor (other than having to look in that folder when you want the model). The model still tells D3 to look for "models/props/furniture/chair01" in a mtr file, meaning I don't actually have to change anything in the material?

[BlackThief]

@spar

that's not true. the postion of the model in the menu only debends on the location of the model file on you disc!

 

for example one of my materials is called models/renderbump/whatever,

but the model-file is located in the folder models/test

 

when I open doomedit there isn't any entry called models/renderbump - just models/test and there I can find my model.

 

 

@springheel yes you don't have to change the material when you simply change the folder of the model file, but the maps will be broken. however you can fix the maps rather easily with a simple text editor and the "replace" function.

[sparhawk]

@spar

that's not true. the postion of the model in the menu only debends on the location of the model file on you disc!

 

Are you sure about this? I thought this is exactly the reason why you have this pathname. I'm not 100% sure on it, I guess we should test it to definitely make sure.