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March 25th Update


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The difference is that people don't build FMs around large houses, because they're boring.

Many Thief OMs have been set in buildings that could easily be referred to as large houses.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

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Rowena's Curse, Lord Alan's Mansion, etc. there are heaps, and they're some of the best.

 

 

Regarding AI - any of us can look at the old T2 behaviour and see areas that could use improvement. And some interesting ideas have been thrown around. I don't think anyone is talking about trying to make a life simulator. You can take key elements from real life though, the ones that make the game fun, and simulate that. Which is all oDDity is suggesting.

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Of course thief missions happen in large houses! Dur!

What the hell was Baffords then?

 

But yeah real life burgularies happen when some guy needs money for his next fix, spots someone with a nice telly in their sitting room, breaks in with a crowbar, runs through the house making a massive mess looking for stuff, runs out.

 

There are no guards. The inhabitants, if they are there, are scared so do nothing, or get a weapon out and go a bit mental.

 

That would be awesome. Really fun. A simulation of reality.

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Well of course all thief missions that involved a large house or estate were unrealistic in the sense that they were always huge and empty apart from dozens of bloodthirsty guards roaming around.

That only makes sense for missions like the bank job, or framed, or the thieves guild, which are some of my favourite missions, but but for missions like baffords or running interference or masks, it doesn't make sense, and I didn't like any of those, they were all too simplistic.

It's up to the FM author to create some pretext as to why the house is so full of armed guards.

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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Well of course all thief missions that involved a large house or estate were unrealistic in the sense that they were always huge and empty apart from dozens of bloodthirsty guards roaming around.

That only makes sense for missions like the bank job, or framed, or the thieves guild, which are some of my favourite missions, but but for missions like baffords or running interference or masks, it doesn't make sense, and I didn't like any of those, they were all too simplistic.

It's up to the FM author to create some pretext as to why the house is so full of armed guards.

 

 

I think this is an important point in terms of FM design. Even just a seemingly unimportant detail like too many guards guarding too little stuff can be an immersion destroyer. I can see a powerful and wealthy lords mansion having a big guard force but now that you mention it many of the Precursor FMs had exactly that problem, namely fifty guards watching over an empty house with a few treasure pieces. Any sensible AI would simply store his or her stuff somewhere else and sack the extra guards. In other words, it comes across as contrived.

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I think most of the fun about Thief was the hype. Here you are, your supposed to be a master theif go break into this building using only these materials and good luck. Sometimes the simplistic answer is the best. Don't really tell anyone anything about the AI. Let them figure it out they're not two.

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