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Citywatch rig


squill

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Ok, I've fixed the hands up as much as I can. I've had to unweld the seams on the inside of the fingers to avoid the export issues. This means that the inside of the fingers are not smoothed, which doesn't look great, though you can only notice if you're sticking your face right into their hand.

 

Anyway, I can upload the mesh as a .lwo file, or email it to you if you prefer.

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Ok, I've fixed the hands up as much as I can. I've had to unweld the seams on the inside of the fingers to avoid the export issues. This means that the inside of the fingers are not smoothed, which doesn't look great, though you can only notice if you're sticking your face right into their hand.

 

Anyway, I can upload the mesh as a .lwo file, or email it to you if you prefer.

 

first of all, happy new year ;)

 

You can mail the lwo file to me. Just before i left for the holidays I had setup a quick walkcycle to test the model. I noticed the upperbody stretches when he steps on higher surfaces. The pelvis lifts up while the hips stay on the right height.

 

Walk

 

also when i remove the sword joint i'm unable to test the model ingame because it still searches for this joint. I don't know what to comment out to make it work without the sword joint.

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Other than the pelvis (which looks hilarious) that seems promising. :)

 

also when i remove the sword joint i'm unable to test the model ingame because it still searches for this joint. I don't know what to comment out to make it work without the sword joint.

 

It's definitely not worth any effort to figure out, so might as well just leave it in. It doesn't actually hurt anything.

 

Should I email the hands to the address on your website?

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Should I email the hands to the address on your website?

 

So you are lending him a hand? :laugh: SCNR :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Regarding the sword joint, I didn't see it used by any attachments on the citywatch, but it does look like it's still under all this stuff in the "export" section of the def file

/def/tdm_ai_citywatch

export citywatch {

options -sourcedir models/model_src/citywatch_mb -destdir models/md5/chars/guards/citywatch -scale .94
mesh citywatchmesh.mb -dest tdm_ai_citywatch
addoptions -keep Hips LeftHips_Dummy LeftUpLeg ... sword -scale .94

Maybe that means it needs to be re-exported with the new joints? Or was that already done? I'm not sure how the export stuff gets into the def file, does it have to be done by hand? You could try removing "sword" from there and seeing if it works. [EDIT: Whoops, I guess it would be in the tdm_ai_merc_proguard def since that's the one we're testing with, but that has the same thing: sword still there in that section of the def]

 

Regarding the torso stretching: Could that have to do with the IK settings?

You may know this already, but they're located here in /def/tdm_ai_humanoid.def

		//all humanoid AI will be using the same base skeleton
	"ik_numLegs"					"2"
"ik_minWaistAnkleDist"		  "16"
"ik_footSize"					"4"
"ik_waist"						"Hips"
"ik_hip1"						"LeftUpLeg"
"ik_hip2"						"RightUpLeg"
"ik_knee1"						"LeftLeg"
"ik_knee2"						"RightLeg"
"ik_ankle1"						"LeftFoot"
"ik_ankle2"						"RightFoot"
//normally a knee joint
//"ik_dir1"						"LeftFoot"
//"ik_dir2"						"RightFoot"
"ik_foot1"						"LeftToeBase"
"ik_foot2"						"RightToeBase"

 

Maybe this needs to be updated now that you've added the new hip joint to separate upper and lower bodies? Did the "Hips" joint change its place in the hierarchy? [EDIT: I guess while we're testing the new skeleton and still using the old one, you might want to duplicate (overload) these settings on the proguard def and only edit them there so that they don't effect stuff using the old skeleton]

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Maybe that means it needs to be re-exported with the new joints? Or was that already done? I'm not sure how the export stuff gets into the def file, does it have to be done by hand? You could try removing "sword" from there and seeing if it works.

 

i already tried that. I'm using a custom def file to export the models/animations. But once i start a testmap i keep getting the msg: joint "" not found for attaching 'CMeleeWeapon' on ...

 

Regarding the torso stretching: Could that have to do with the IK settings?

You may know this already, but they're located here in /def/tdm_ai_humanoid.def

 

yes thats what i needed to know. I changed "ik_waist" from "hips" to "pelvis" which fixed the stretching. thanks

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i already tried that. I'm using a custom def file to export the models/animations. But once i start a testmap i keep getting the msg: joint "" not found for attaching 'CMeleeWeapon' on ...

Okay, the pro_guard def was still trying to attach to the sword joint (indirectly, by not supplying the new hip sheath position). I just fixed it so that all of our sword-wielding-hip-sheathing AI use the new setup now on SVN. If you update you should get the fixed def for pro_guard that no longer tries to use the sword joint.

 

It looks like the new "sheathed at hip" position needs adjusting for the new skeleton, but we can fix that later. Also they won't draw the sword yet ingame, they'll just attack with an empty hand. I didn't go thru all the animations in the def files and add that yet.

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Ok, so now it's on to redoing the animations for the new skeleton? I won't touch the proguard while you're working with it, but I can start rigging some of the other characters in the meantime.

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Ok, so now it's on to redoing the animations for the new skeleton? I won't touch the proguard while you're working with it, but I can start rigging some of the other characters in the meantime.

 

jep, im working on the run and idles.

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Ok, I'm starting to rig the new nobleman, using the proguard as a guideline.

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i've added a generic idle, walk and run on the proguard.

 

only one issue, I can't get his pelvis to move correctly. I guess it has something to do with setting the proper torso and legs channels in the def file but i already tried a few settings. It's clearly visible on the run cycle like he's floating because there's no up and down movement on the hips.

 

to show you what i mean i removed the movement from the origin (so he's running in place) and placed a testmodel next to it with the same animation.

 

The one on the left is the testmodel. You can clearly see the difference when his hips are also moving on the left model.

Running

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Huh. The difference is there but I had to watch it for a while to notice.

 

 

Btw, I notice that you added a bunch more polys to the rear of the tunic--is that to allow for better motion back there? Should I do the same thing for the nobleman model?

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Btw, I notice that you added a bunch more polys to the rear of the tunic--is that to allow for better motion back there? Should I do the same thing for the nobleman model?

 

I think Dom added that. I don't think it hurts having a few more polygons around the tunic. I haven't seen any major deform or clipping problems.

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only one issue, I can't get his pelvis to move correctly. I guess it has something to do with setting the proper torso and legs channels in the def file but i already tried a few settings. It's clearly visible on the run cycle like he's floating because there's no up and down movement on the hips.

What is the joint controlling the pelvis and what channel should it be on? Legs, I assume? I could try playing with the channel assignments in the def to get it to work, although it's possible you've already tried whatever I would try.

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What is the joint controlling the pelvis and what channel should it be on? Legs, I assume? I could try playing with the channel assignments in the def to get it to work, although it's possible you've already tried whatever I would try.

 

i've set *Spine_Dummy for the torso channel and *origin -*RightToe_end for the legs. I tried to change "ik_waist" from Pelvis to Hips which fixes the pelvis movement but you get the stretching of the torso again so that doesn't work either.

post-322-1232402792_thumb.jpg

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Huh. The difference is there but I had to watch it for a while to notice.

Btw, I notice that you added a bunch more polys to the rear of the tunic--is that to allow for better motion back there? Should I do the same thing for the nobleman model?

Yep - he had like a single huge square for an arse, and as soon as he bent his legs, his tunic clipped right through his waist. Haven't seen the nobleman - it's a case by case thing. Bend the legs, see if it needs it.

 

It looks like I can just get cracking with anims now, all the technical issues have been ironed out?? This is exciting :)

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It looks like I can just get cracking with anims now, all the technical issues have been ironed out?? This is exciting :)

 

Almost. Only the Pelvis movement is still an issue that needs to be solved. But you can of course start animating.

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Only the Pelvis movement is still an issue that needs to be solved.

 

I wish I had something to offer here.

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Believe me, if I thought money would help I would have thrown it at the problem long before this.

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i've tried a lot of things from changing the "ik_minWaistAnkleDist" to changing the joint hierarchy back to the original skeleton but i haven't found a solution so far for the pelvis problem.

 

i still go on animating but this thing is still in the back on my mind because it means the animations are not played properly ingame. The solution seems to be so close but i keep on digging.

 

Is the tdm_ai_merc_proguard.def truly the only file which controls the ik settings and joint channels?

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The ai_humanoid_base.def file also has ik settings, but the proguard settings will override them. I don't know where any other information might be kept.

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The ai_humanoid_base.def file also has ik settings, but the proguard settings will override them. I don't know where any other information might be kept.

 

Maybe the doc can help?

 

http://bloodgate.com/mirrors/tdm/pub/doc/#...nwaistankledist

 

http://bloodgate.com/mirrors/tdm/pub/doc/#search-ik

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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The proguard's settings will override any inherited settings, so the regular AI def files are probably not having any effect.. The real question is whether there is anything in the code that establishes which joints are considered part of the torso vs the legs. I'm not sure where that is done.

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