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Problem with purse frobbox_size in 2.05


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#1 grayman

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:24 AM

In 2.05, it was decided to add a frobbox_size of 10 to purses. See issue #4150.

 

As was just discovered (issue #4573) this prevents a purse in The Creeps from being frobable.

 

The purse isn't frobable because the increased frobbox_size allows the frob controller in the drawer under the purse to think the purse is in the drawer. So when the drawer is closed, the purse is unfrobable.

 

Since the purse has been assigned to the drawer, it isn't assigned to the secret door. When the door is opened, the purse is ignored and it doesn't become frobable.

 

My take on the discussion here is that folks thought it would be nice if purses automatically received a bigger frobbox_size to make it easier for them to be frobbed out of chests.

 

But the bureau is a complex beast full of frob blockers and frob controllers and increasing frobbox sizes amongst that complexity causes problems.

 

 

 

I propose reverting the 2.05 +10 frobbox_size on purses and going back to "it's up to the mapper to make sure items inside chests and bureaus and desks are frobable", which is how it's been since day 1.

 

Comments?


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#2 Judith

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:35 AM

I don't know the specifics, but TDS used frob_bias parameter do sort out what is frobbed in the first place, when you had several objects in a chest or just placed next to each other. Another, a bit more arbitrary solution that comes to my mind is a script that would temporarily disable frob on a container, right after player opens it, until he/she gets all the content, so there's no frob conflict.


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#3 Durandall

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:53 AM

Does this resolve the problem in SVN as well?



#4 grayman

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

Does this resolve the problem in SVN as well?

 

No. We're looking at it now.



#5 grayman

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 08:57 AM

I don't know the specifics, but TDS used frob_bias parameter do sort out what is frobbed in the first place, when you had several objects in a chest or just placed next to each other. Another, a bit more arbitrary solution that comes to my mind is a script that would temporarily disable frob on a container, right after player opens it, until he/she gets all the content, so there's no frob conflict.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Players have been complaining about inability to frob things for years, but in most cases these are ironed out during beta testing by adjusting frob_bias and frobbox_size on the problematic items.

 

The issue with making a general change as was made in 2.05 is that mappers who worked around the bug may now be faced with the bug going away, thus wrecking their workaround.


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#6 Judith

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:11 AM

Frob bias should do, or maybe making things unfrobabble until the lid is open, which I saw in a few maps already. I also saw cases where you could frob chests in addition to chest lids, and I bet that causes a lot of trouble as well. IMO as a rule of thumb, only lids should be made frobbable.


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#7 grayman

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:29 AM

Frob bias should do, or maybe making things unfrobabble until the lid is open, which I saw in a few maps already. I also saw cases where you could frob chests in addition to chest lids, and I bet that causes a lot of trouble as well. IMO as a rule of thumb, only lids should be made frobbable.

 

Again, this can be worked out during beta test. The frob relationship between chests and lids has changed over the years, and I think that the prefabs are now set up properly (or at least they should be).


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#8 nbohr1more

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:50 AM

The frob box size change should have been made into a new purse entity like purse_new_frob or something

so that it could be used by mappers going forward.

 

Even smart cookies like SteveL sometimes forget that changes to in-use assets can break maps where said

assets have been tweaked (etc).

 

I hope the SVN issue can be resolved. It would be a shame to lose those new collision optimizations. @stgatilov?


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#9 Spooks

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 06:28 AM

It's good to know I wasn't going crazy, I've encountered a couple of completely unfrobable purses, one in A House of Locked Secrets comes to mind. I'm not a fan of piling entities in the browser, it's already super confusing to a newcomer looking at our candle entities, for instance. Right now the bug makes missions not able to be 100% looted, so I'm for reverting the change, SVN issues notwithstanding (dunno what's goin' on there!)


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#10 grayman

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:12 PM

The purse frobability problem in The Creeps is fixed in the latest SVN (14849).

 

I reverted the frobbox_size change back from 10 to 0 for moveable and non-moveable purses.

 

This allowed me to revert a code change I had made for a similar unfrobable purse problem in Accountant 2.

 

With the code reverted and the frobbox_sizes reverted, both The Creeps and Accountant 2 work correctly.


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#11 grayman

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:13 PM

I hope the SVN issue can be resolved. It would be a shame to lose those new collision optimizations.

 

The collision optimizations survived.  B)


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#12 RPGista

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:35 PM

Thats great, thanks grayman. I also encountered the issue a few times on different maps.






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