MurcDusen

So, I guess...the sorrounding buidlings were destroyed, but the clocktower was fine? They just put it up straight again? Or maybe they realligned the city around it?

I've never been really active in a lot of online communities, though I've been lurking a fair share of forums. I'm usually not too eager to get vocal on the net, and take my time getting accustomed to a community before I even consider signing up, but here I felt right at home. Might be because it's small (yet?), but I'm wondering about the "average age". I hope it's not because of that, otherwise I might have ruined the community by signing up with my feeble 18 years

No sound on impact as in guards won't hear when you take out someone near them, or just not notice if you miss? If the first, yeah, totally OP. If the latter, I wouldn't want to buy that. That'd make me lose out on a ghetto version of the noisemaker arrows. One way or the other, seems they'll really stick with the simplified, kill-happy way they've been going so far.

Ah, I guess you mean all the "We respect Thief's DNA" kinda stuff? And not really doing anything that's in line with the originals at all (Free exploration and movement, actually adult writing)? Well, if so, that's kinda what I meant. I really wouldn't expect them to do anything like that in the first place, since it doesn't sell. If that's still not it (you can disagree, I just wanna know if I got the gist of what you were saying correct) I'll just shut my mouth for now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfygeIxYwuw

Not saying I like the direction Thiaf has been going. I don't like any bit of it so far. I just don't see any point in trying to tell 'em (the developers) that what they are doing is "wrong". As many people have been noting, it's moving towards mainstream/simplified gameplay, and of course they'd do that. As a commercial company they don't have any obligation other than making profit, which they are definately trying to achieve. (hence the "that's so 90's" comments of some of the developers, some things that "we" appreciate just don't sell well today. Not to say that they are completey right with their decisions... a suprising amount of the reviews have been negative so far, so they might not even succeed with that goal). It's just that I reall wouldn't count too much on a company, that's clearly commercial, to care for anything but profit. I don't like it, I in fact despise the fact that our economy works that way, I just think that we're better off trying to make good games by ourselves for ourselves, and not counting on AAA game developers to deliver what we'd like. Migh have not answered your points really, again, I might not be fully capable of reading and understanding and/or answering your points right now. Let me think about all of this while a bit less under the influence of intoxicating substances

Taking the marxist approach, I don't actually think there's too much to "improve" about the current gaming culture. It's industry, and it's there to make profit. More importantly, growing profit. I don't think EM are in any way supposed to listen to the fans of the originals and their qualms, or that "we" (as in the fans of the originals) are entitled to anything. Of course they try to cater to a large audience, in order to make most profit. And no, that doesn't really have anything to do with "greed". I see it as more of a fundamental problem of why things in general are made (any kind of product or service being provided), it's not for the consumers enjoyment, but for profit, i.e. "forcing" the money out of the people who actuallly have some of it left (I'm not sure whether I should be glad that I don't belong into that group of people). I think there's lots to be misunderstood in that post, but I'm just too drunk now to clarify.

I played Escape from Butcher Bay, and I guess it did a decent job at it since I actually couldn't even remember that it had a visible body. Can't recall 3rd Person sequences neither, but it's been a long time and I didn't enjoy it too much (didn't finish it). And even if, add that and Mirrors Edge to the list and you still don't have many games doing it well. The whole "switching perspectives" thing is a topic on it's own, though closely related I guess, as it's all part of the notion to restrict the players control just for visual effect. If the game mechanics go along with it (see ArmA, Hitman...), well then I don't see a problem. In a game like Thief though, which is about exploration and freedom (the originals were at least) it's just a no-go.

The thing about body visibilty is, that it doesn't simulate real life body awareness really well, especially if it stiffens movement due to lack of certain animations. In real life we know where our limbs are even without seeing them, and we can move them without having to look at them. The way many games try to simulate body awareness is by actually making and animating a body model for the player, where there's a camera stuck to the head. This limits mobility like crazy, and eventually makes it impossible for the player to do certain things they would be able to in the real world. I find that highly immersion-breaking. For example, when balancing tight beams in any fps without visible body, I just imagine my character to put one foot infront of the other, whereas in (admitedly older) games with a visible body, I would see a totally normal walk animation. Thiaf goes even so far as to shove the visible body right in your face (literally), just to show off. The fact that I'd never hold my hands like the way nuGarret does, does again break my immersion a lot. The only games I can think of that did body awareness well were Mount & Blade, ArmA and maybe Hitman, since they usually had pretty stiff movement systems anyway, which also fit into the general design of these games.

I already thought Deus Ex: HR was really annoying in taking control away from me (and it actually didn't happen THAT much... my main gripe is the Icarus I guess), I doubt I would be able to enjoy Thiaf.

With "pretty" I mean polished in general, more streamlined, easier to get into etc. M&B was always pretty sandboxy, which I really enjoyed, just like it's moddability. Wonder whether this game will be moddable.

Looks like something I'd buy, if I had the money... and the PC to run it on... But there was something that bothered me, especially since it calls itselve realistic: -Usage of torches (in a tight, confined space on top of that) -Strange metal buring things all over the place (especially in that fist-fighting scene) -"Big battles". They were pretty rare in reality (If it's just one or two in the game, or if all of them actually happened, disregard) (no, I didn't watch too much Lindybeige) Still, the fact that they are atleast going for realism is nice. Guess this will be Mount & Blade's pretty brother?

That is a really important part of the game. When I played TMA I was always on the edge and feared being spotted, so I took my time and cautiously explored everything (well, still missed most secrets/loot) and everything was really intense. As I kept playing the game though I became more and more aware of the fact that the AI was actually kinda dumb and that it really wasn't all that difficult to run through levels. While that didn't really ruin the game for me, it prevented me from ever experiencing the same sort of intense sneaking ever again.

As happens with current (or I guess last) gen games, I'm late to the party. Got the Directors cut for 5 Euros during the Steam Sale, played a bit (Steam says 96 minutes) so far. I'm not really invested in the whole scenario so far, genetic engineering, robotic augments... this reeks like it will get awfully moral later on, and it's just a topic that I in general have no real interest in. Also so far the whole world seems to be a lot less dark than in the first one (plague, destroyed Statue of Liberty right off the bat), except that everyone seems unreasonably smug now. I always liked Denton from the first game, he was just professional, trying to get the job done, but also showed emotions in adequate spots (e.g. when talking with his brother in the second level). Jenssen seems more like a slightly cynical teenager to me, as do a few of the other characters so far (the IT guy, the SWAT officer). His love affair with the science lady seems kinda shoehorned in and like it might just be used as an arbitrary plot device. To the gameplay: The intro sequence in the labs made me kinda pessimistic. I really don't like it when games make you witness the deaths of a bazillion other people and yet you are unable to interact with them in any way (Half Life did it well, Black Mesa even better). Just a minor gripe though I guess. The bigger problem was the combat. I really dislike cover based shooting (the "press X to glue yourself to a wall" type), and especially if it means arbitrarily changing camera perspectives. Not only does that break immersion (not THAT important) but it is really irritating control-wise. There always is a split second the camera needs to change where you can't move, and once you can you still have to clunkily aim again and shoot, whereas in a normal fps I would have just stood up and fired right away (since I'm mostly trying to be stealthy, I'm ducked 80% of the time in a combat area anyways). I just refused using the cover system in that Prologue sequence, and the game really isn't meant to be played that way. Guess I'll just have to accept the cover shooting. After the prologue though the game suddenly got good. Exploring the offices was really fun and I felt like I was back in DE1. I'm not really sure whether I like that it has a negative consequence if you take your time there, as it actively discourages it, but then again in this case it was quite believable and fit the situation. I'm also not sure whether I like that they made that hint back at DE1 with that comment about the ladies bathroom. It was neat in the first one, but here it seemed like fan service. Nothing to really complain about though. I also liked when I threw a box at the SWAT people and they started shooting and chasing me. I escaped them and made my way into the first real combat area, equipped only with a stun gun and a can of beer. That's when the game became kinda painful again. I didn't mind the first guards, just slipped by them over the roof, not after goofing around a bit though. I tested out the range of the stungun (not very long) and the AI's acuity. Felt like I was playing Tenchu, as the AI didn't seem to be able to see me when I was on the roof above them, at least not until a missed taser shot alerted them. A nice thing I think I saw was that the guy woke up the other one I stunned before. I just ignored them as they were trying to shoot me through the roof and went on. The next room was really confined and full of guards though, and things didn't go as well. Turns out you REALLY have to use the cover system. Not only is the whole stealth aspect based around it, but it would seem that Jenssens "uncovered" hitbox is messed up. I was ducking behind a box as the enemies were shooting at me, but somehow they hit me. They were clearly somewhere on the other side of the box, and I couldn't see them. I was even looking up (meaning that my eyes must have pretty much been the highest point of my body, and they were not peeking over the box), but still they shot me (I even saw the point of impact, as there was blood splashing out of it, and it was clearly above me in the air). To summarize: -Story and setting seem meh, not really bad, just kinda bland -cover based combat and stealth feel clunky and restrictive -Non-combat areas actually seem pretty well done I think I'll have a go at it again and maybe I'll just get used to the cover system. Seems like a waste of the potentially good other thing otherwise. Maybe I'll just go with super babby easy mode.

Wow, I never even thought these forums already existed in 2005... Now that this is already necro'ed, might as well add my opinion, having played the four first Splinter Cells (got 'em all from magazines, my main source of games back in the days of sparse pocket money). I didn't really like any Splinter Cell, they just seemed too consolish for me: third-person camera, clunky movement (with keyboard and mouse at least, I'd imagine it'd at least feel okay with a gamepad), the linear leveldesign with the arbitrary triggers; also the story... CT was still the best of them I played, if only because you could just run through the levels knifing everybody, at least it made it go by faster and I even had a little fun doing that. If I remember correctly you could even throw objects that were lying around (rocks, tin cans...) at enemies to knock them out, which made it even more laughable. Also: But introduces the "They don't mind the bright green googly eyes in the shadow" paradox (also the green light on Fishers back... which was really unnecessary since it told you something your HUD did anyways).

Regarding the examination/synthesizing cutscenes: You can skip them by pressing LMB. Same goes for the drinking anmimations.

Crap is the wrong word I guess. I'm pretty sure that it would be kinda fun if I played it, just like T4 probably, or like all the (few) current gen (or is it last gen already?) games I've played, like Dead Space, Saboteur and a few of the newer CODs. I could even imagine myself finishing them, but I highly doubt it'll be the kind of deeply satisfying fun I had (and still have) with games like T2 or Homeworld 2 (Complex rocks!). Newer AAA titles are so streamlined and fancy it's hard not to be entertained in some way, so that's also not my criteria for them being good. But yeah, crap is too strong a word (for Hitman Absolution that is, compared to what T4 seems to become it really was more of a modernized sequel, whereas T4 is a total reboot mostly ignoring the "DNA" of the prequels).

Like with Hitman Absolution I'll be somewhat happy if it turns out to be crap (from what is known so far I'm pretty confident this will turn out to be crap and even moreso than H:A which seemed to be somewhat true to the originals), since I wouldn't be able to play it anyways, but TDM (just barely) runs on my PC, so I'm not missing out on anything. Shame there is no TDM equivalent for Hitman... anyone interested in making The Bald Mod?

CyberSpeed looks pretty weird. I guess it's some kind of racing game, but you are on a rail? So how does that work? Or is it basically a rail shooter?

Just read through the last pages of the Thief 4 thread with the discussion about overengineering and modern level design, and it (especially a post by Serpentine) made my mind wander to a few PS1 games that I think have some really cool level design and then all the unknown gems on that system (it's probably my favorite system right after the PC). I don't know who here even has a PS1 (I'd guess PC is pretty dominant here), but either way I guess it's important to spread awareness. So, have a few obscure PS1 games. O.D.T. Escape Or Die Trying Gotta start with this one... It's an action-adventure with rpg and platforming elements, think Tomb Raider meets Shadowman and then add a (relatively) huge array of spells, a pretty unique steam-punky fantasy setting with very strange (and sometimes kinda creepy) level and enemy design and a pretty harsh difficulty. This one really demands dedication, especially when getting used to the controls. By today's standards you'd probably say clunky, but I actually quite enjoy it. Traversing cliffs and platforms while dodging projectiles and kicking monster-bats in the face really feels like a challange, and is quite satisfying once you manage to pull it off. There also is a PC version out there... somewhere... Broken Helix A third-person action game starring Bruce Campbell as demolition expert Jake Burton who gets tasked with defusing bombs some renegade scientists set in Area 51... from there on everything goes nuts (of course are there aliens, why would you even ask?). The two main twists of the game are the fact that every line of dialogue is voiced (pretty unique for a 1997 game) and that it features non-linear gameplay with 4 different endings. And no, not the kind of "Okay player, you can now choose A or B to make some details change"-kinda deal. First few times I played it I didn't even realise there were multiple ways of completing it. You really have to figure out yourself how to progress through the base and make it out alive at the end of the day. It's a bit like the "NES hard" kind of deal, it takes a long time to figure out what you have to (or can) do, and that's the meat of the game, and once you know you can blaze through it pretty fast. Or not really, since the game uses "4-D real time gameplay", meaning that stuff on the base is happening in real-time, so if you need a certain character to do something to progress, you really have to wait for him to do it. Dreams (to Reality) This one's kind of a joke. The PC version supposedly is pretty good, but the PSX version is just a broken mess, in a fun and unique way though (especially the ending...). If you have a boner for crappy video games (in the B-Movie kind of way), then give this one a try. Best played with at least one friend and some alcoholic beverages. All of these are also pretty cheap to get on amazon, if my memory serves me right I got each of them for under 1 Euro (not including shipping of course). But there are soooooo many more of these, some good, some terrible, I don't care. As long as they are unique, obscure and fun in oney way or another.

So I guess it'd be only possible to implement specifically by the mapper. That settles that.

Press the "use" key (default enter) while dragging them. Same button to throw them down again. Edit: Well, too slow.

You might try Awaiting The Storm for a start instead, it's pretty short, kinda linear and relatively easy (it can be a bit hardware hungry in the beginning area though...)

I know that feeling far too well... I'd have bought it if I could have gotten someone to borrow me some money... which I didn't. Now the sale's over and 20 bucks is completely out of question for me... maybe they'll do a sale on final release or something?