RPGista

TDM gets its very own ASE exporter? Thats absoutely amazing, man. Youve become our resident file formats expert in no time. I will be sure to check this guy out, as Ive been working with vertex blends and Ive been having difficulties making them work on the lwos Im exprting. Those new features and improvements sound incredible, specially al the attention to normals, which are the most troublesome part of game modelling for me. And the efficiency gains... Huge kudos.

Fantastic information boys, I dont think we had this amount of detail and insight into the technical aspects of texture-making before. Great contributions. Will definitely be coming back for more. One aspect of TDM that always made me a bit sad was that vast surface areas tend to be in "total darkness" at all times and are not subjected to lights at all, apart from the ambient one (unless you bring a light source with you). This way, a player that keeps to the dark is going to be spending a lot of time looking at textures in their worst state - bascily a washed out, darkened and contrast free albedo with weird normals and zero speculars. Pretty charmless. Thats why even the shadow areas should have some sort of gradient, but since we dont have bounced lights, its not really possible. The only way to simulate this that comes to mind is to have a subtle dark fog covering the whole map, this would make areas that are distant from light sources to become increasingly darker. But this has a cost on performance, thats why I didnt use it in my own map (I might revisit that now that I mention it).

Definitely would be better to have separate entities. You can be doing a panoramic and the microphone is firmly centered on the action/conversation. To allow for the "echo chamber" effect mentioned, maybe we could have the microphone capture sounds and send it to a speaker as well, not only the player. This way you can be walking close to that vent or "phone tube" end and you can overhear, the closer you get, whatever is being echoed there in real time (as well as keep your normal hearing in your surroundings - you wouldnt need to "use" the vent or pipe in order to listen to it or not, just aproach it). This would in theory allow for cries of help (alerts) to be carried from one part of the map to another and to acvitate whatever AI happens to be around the end of the tube, thats close enough to heae it. For this to work during gampelay however you would need to add some kind of filter arg to the speaker, as it would have to sound distorted and muffled, it shouldnt sound crystal clear.

I see what you did there.

Sorry, it says theres no file.

Its not that that easy, actually. You import it to blender and from there you can resize it and, most importantly, duplicate it so you can decimate to a reasonable tris count. That will be the model you will be exporting in game. By keeping the high poly copy in blender, you can use that to "bake" a detailed normal map. I havent had much luck with this process, as 3d scans and decimating in general do not really create very good meshes, and the normal maps and vertex smoothing that result from it are not perfect. Seen anything you liked? I might be able to take a look for you.

Hey man, sorry to hear that. Sure, do upload it (the forum only accepts images or txts) but its easy to put it on a file hosting site and post the link here (something like Sendspace should do it). I'll take a look at it and will try to finish this guy up.

Would be fantastic to have your color grading program absorbed into the game somehow, and be something the player can choose in the settings to add flavour to their game (and mappers would be able to choose different ones as defaults for their missions). In case someone didnt get to see the thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/18972-color-grading-shader/?do=findComment&comment=408635

Theres a very useful article on this, all your questions are answered there: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Limits,_Max,_Min,_Stats,_etc Ps: I keep forgetting to check your tutorials Obs, they full of interesting stuff!

Well, thats a shame, that article got my hopes high there for a second... Thanks a lot for all this info, Springheel. Im making a few of those low poly bush models wth transparent images, to help with grassy areas.

Im working on some bush and grass models and was intrigued by this: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Alpha-fading It says "So there is no way to make models to appear fading-in, or fading-out, except by varying the alpha threshold. Together with a good alpha map with ramps, this can make things appear to burn-away (an effect used by D3 f.i. for the imps "burning" away after you killed them), or to "grow thinner" with distance." This part seems very ambiguous to me. Can you have gradual transparency (fading) for a texture image with an alpha channel? PS: Anyone remember the shader code to make foliage materials move around a little (to simulate wind)?

I do agree with most of your points, but I disagree about the low benefit. In fact, I believe its the opposite. Its pretty hard work to put new assets into TDM. Sure, you can learn it the hard way, we all did it. But you can say that about every other feature in the game, including the ones that did get support inside the editor, like objectives, stim and response, readables, etc. When we get a bit of experience using this game, its easy to forget just how hard it is to first get your bearings and the amount of energy that goes into researching all the little details and steps needed to achieve something as simple as putting a new model in your map. If DR were to provide this guidance to map makers, and people were freed from some of the workload that goes into bringing in new stuff to maps, I think that would offer a lot of potential, and maybe maps with a strong visual identity would become more common. A few of the things I imagined might be a bit outlandish, but some of that stuff is already possible inside the editor, using args and what not (like making something a moveable, adding a collision box, making it non solid, no shadows, things like that). A gui would hopefully gather that functionality (and more) and apply it to your new material or your new model as you bring it into your project.

Look here: http://threedscans.com/

Ok, I know this might be a lot more complicated than Im aware, but Ive been thinking about a way of making it easier for most mappers to include new assets in their missions, from inside DR and with its guidance. Im thinking of a system just like the conversation gui, where you set the parameters and it writes the scripts for you, but in this case, something that will help you get assets in the game without having to deal with the laborious and error prone task of doing it manually: 1- I have an .ase file, and a bunch of maps for it; 2- I click on Import Asset, search for the model, and DR will then create the folders inside your project and place the model there; 3- The GUI would then search inside the file and prompt you to build the materials (or choose existing ones) for each mesh found in the model; 4- So for mesh A you would get a Material Creation gui, where you first search for the map (diffuse, normal or specular), then you choose the material type in a drop list (wood, metal, etc), and check yes or no for things like Self shadow, solid or non solid, etc. You can set it to be translucent, give it effects, maybe even adjust its levels and brightness and saturation, or strength for normals (is that possible with shader code?), make it emissive (choosing color and brightness), set its transparency (alpha) threshold or setup alpha blends, picking or creating each of the materials for it. Ideally, you would have a model preview window with the material you are creating being applied in real time, after each change. The existing model preview window in render mode should do. 5- Then its the same for mesh B and so forth; 6- You would be able to also check yes or no if the model is to be a moveable - you would then be able to choose physics characteristics (weight, bouncing sounds, etc), check ok for an automatic collision box, etc. 7- You would also be able to setup any skins for the model, picking existing ones or creating a new material for each; And more stuff that I forget. After that, DR would writte every file for you and place it inside the proper folder tree. It would writte the material shader, the skin def, the .cm file, everything. You wouldnt need to do research and go through existing assets, searching what would work for you, create you folder structure, edit text files by hand. The GUI would do that for you, just like the conversation or readable guis already do. The same GUI could be used for importing materials alone, without a model being involved - just skip to step 4, and you would be able to easily add new textures to your map on the fly, from inside DR. Is any of this realistic?

Not to be that a-hole, because I do appreciate the labour of love thing, but looking at your project and the fact you said you are mostly on your own now, I would probably suggest you reconsider your path, instead of going foward regardless. Look at TDM, its a team effort and with lots of brilliant people slaving on it for years, and its still not complete. Making a map alone, without worrying about art or code, just focusing on that, building a place, adjusting the scenes, getting it right, for a single person that can take months or even years to finish. So, going alone is sure to end up in exhaustion. This is none of my business and everyone will do whatever they want, but perhaps you could take your concepts and your existing material and migrate to a new community, a new engine, like Godot for example, there seems to be a lot of things going on there. Its also the sort of engine a single person can in fact move things along by himself, because its meant to be a user friendly, DIY plataform, unlike say Idtech.

Ok so we are having a lot of talk surrounding TDM's engine, and its amazing that we are having so much done in the way of improvements to it, lately. I thought it could be fun to have a (yet another) place where we as fans could post things we would like to see added to the game, more specifically to its mechanics. Just suggestions for things that we feel would reinforce the game's strengths and design choices. Obviously, its up to the team and coders to know where to best place the resources and what needs to be prioritised. But a man can dream... Having said that, lets start with something simple and easy... Physics overhaul Ok, maybe not an overhaul, but if theres one thing I always wanted to see improved in TDM (idtech4), before any graphical enhancement, was actually the physics. Not just the sort of fixing that has been taking place on specific points (like being able to KO guards with thrown or fallen objects, which was implemented back in the day). In my dream scenario, TDM would be going closer to a true "physics simulation" type of plataform (keeping gameplay needs at the front, of course). Why do I say that? The potential for a slow, deliberate stealth game in a trully responsive world are immense. Lets remember some of the possibilities to gameplay coming from great physics, as seen in Half Life 2 (I use it because its from the same generation as Doom3): (In the second video) The moment where the player accidentally pushes the pc monitor and it falls down (at 2:02) making a mess, or the whole section from 2:50 to around 4:50 are great examples of things that would be so fun to have in TDM with a more advanced physics system: - responsive chain reactions between objects, rewarding the use of moveables in maps because they can play a crucial role (you dont wanna accidentaly drop a bunch of bottles by bumping clumsily into the table holding them); - pushing objects into place to create obstacles and have their combined weight slow down enemies; - destructable geometry, based on their material (this is so amazing, as you can see in the first video with the wood structures - they seem to be true breakable shapes, organically reacting to impacts or pressure). - being able to throw or cause the movement of heavy bodies that take out enemies and damage other bodies upon impact, even objects with so much mass that they can crush anything on their path; HL2 is a prime example because they used physics masterfully to create all sorts of interesting interactions between the player and the storyline, like puzzles you had to solve using objects and force, or using physics to set traps and take people out, etc. Unfortunately, our engine, although I think many of the principles are there, seems a lot more limited overall. So I wonder how realistic it is for TDM to eventually improve its physics mechanics, either by enhancing doom3's own physics, or by implementing parts of external engines like Bullet or something. Im no expert and have absolutely no idea how hard any of this would be. But I do feel this could be something really interesting for future gameplay.

Springheel - Thats great to hear, but Im afraid I didnt make any lower poly versions to be used as LOD stages... I only created the shadowmesh, which is a decimated copy of it. I could try looking into that if you feel its worth it. The license is CC Atribution, I hope thats fine. Judith - The model is the same as the original. I guess its gonna do fine in most situations.

The dolmen model is on hold because Im having a lot of problems with smoothing... But in my pasttime of bringing in open models to TDM, I got this good looking wine barrel in the game. Its by a guy called niver_mk, from sketchfab. Its about 2K, and I put a shadowmesh in there that has around 700 tris. The pk4 has both an .ase and a .lwo version, the latter is much smaller, but the ase has slightly better smoothing. I also made the textures darker, to fit in better with TDM's feel. I can post the original files, in higher resolution, if anyone wants them. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Al4XNpzYMsVvdCk7w7nRliknT74

Indeed. Like kano pointed out, you can do so much with an open source egine, and idtech4 still has mileage. We are fortunate to have a lot of work being done under the hood right now, and thats pretty cool, keeps the engine fresh, hungry and evolving. I like the focus on brush work for map making. Sure, it will never look as amazing as those 100% modeled maps done in 3d studio, but it allows for anyone, a regular guy, a hobbyist, to be able to get in there and to actually build something, be creative without having to become a pro 3d modeler beforehand. I think we would benefit far more from advancing the assets and code we have, than migrating to a new engine. What would be great is if we could get a gradual revamp, if we could incorporate new models with good artistic value, gradually replace or include new characters, with more complex meshes. Revise our textures. Provide lots of those architecture modules to aid us beautifying our blocky maps. Teach people how to light spaces. How building structures work. Very important, add animations to our AI, add new behaviours. They are always evolving as well, getting smarter. But there are things missing, that could make them become more and more alive. If we can get that, TDM will go on for many many years, looking beautiful and interesting in its own style.

Ok so I dont wanna add to some of the extreme content that has been made present in this thread, and I only read the reasonable posts. I kinda like Sotha's conclusion, it was uber pragmatic, just as you would expect coming from a science guy. I mean it in a good way. I just wanna talk a bit about how we perceive science, its something that keeps coming up in conversations like these. You see people using advanced technology, computers, radios, mobile phones, global networks, etc. to express their distrust and disbelief about science, and to feed on information that reinforces it. You see people that never had polio, telling other people about the dangers of vaccination. You see a lot of stuff like that. They drive cars, they travel on planes, they use gps, they go to the hospital to be treated or operated upon, and yet they dont trust "science". Its easy for us to get on our high horse and defend the scientific culture that gave us every single material advancement we have, and most of the social ones as well. That is obviously true. But why do they fear science then? Im not gonna go into the phsychological background here, dont have the expertise. And for sure, most people obssessed with stopping scientific progress are dishonest lobbyists working for private interests or are simply deluded (they can be brainwashed by ideologies, or it could be for religious reasons, and other traditional dogmas). But we also know that science is used to test what happens when you drop corrosive chemicals on a rabbit's eye. Or how to allow for caged animals to be kept barely alive so they can then be slaughtered for mass consumption. Like Richard Dawkins once said, science is the best method to get any result you want. It can indeed be used for good, and for bad. If you want to save the planet, science is what you need. If you want to know how to best torture prisioners, theres a scientific method to get you there. Of course, you need to be completely biased to stress this side view, and ignore the vast majority of cases where science is and has been wholly beneficial. But a lot of people will do just that. So I think we should be talking not only about science, but rather a view of the world which will include this benevolent scientific drive we all desire. We remember watching cartoons and seeing it in pop culture, that in the future robots would do all the work for us and science would solve all our problems. This was coming from a time where people thought that the point of science was to benefit all of mankind. But because of our current "philosophical" world view, most of this power and potential was captured by markets. Machines work for big corporations, not for the benefit of others, and will in fact drive many to unemployment in the coming years, which will only worsen the picture. This will probably be true for generations to come, if this waste isnt discussed. We as people have become increasingly cynical and isolated and egotistical, because thats what we see working in our environment. Thats what is rewarded. I think the thing today is for people to get into the conversation about how we actually want to organize ourselves, what values do we want to push foward, the liberties we need to protect, that kind of stuff. Its a good time to do that.

Yeah, I came late to the party but these videos are incredible - perfect pacing, clear, detailed explanations, on top of the visual guide. Couldnt ask for more. Thanks a a lot for this.

This sounds pretty good, man. BTW, we definitely dont thank our coders enough, all you guys are real cool...

Apart from the gimp techniques, the crucial part for me was the how-to explaining the process of making it work in game and in DR, thats always the hardest part for beginners, thanks for that.

I think it is a tendency of ours to get distracted by "pragmatic" thinking, like the stuff you pointed out (im sure, in jest) - should we train to live in a post apocaliptic era, buy lots of guns, should we stash food somewhere, it all reminds me of The Road. Sure, we could do that, but you wanna survive to do what? You wanna live in a bunker untill when? To then go where? If its all destroyed, what is the point? To keep on living, I guess one would argue. Hope for a new sort of evolution. But even the universe itself is going to cease eventualy, taking everything with it. So surely, its not about the ending, its not about getting somewhere, because any point we get to will eventually fall apart and disappear. So, obviously this is about the present. Its not about the destination, its about the trip. Thats what we experience, thats what we can influence. The fact that we destroy the environment we live in and that we cant, no matter how hard we try, care enough to change our behaviour is nothing new, has happened repeatedly in smaller scales throughout history (see ancient civilizations and how they fell, historic cities that were abandoned, etc). Its just a genetic thing. We see that in fast foward mode with viruses and bacteria. Our "leaders", our politicians, our noblemen, we as consumers, its beyond our forces to stop pursuing that which we were taught to pursue, and we cant physically change that. Whatever progress we have seen in this area as well as others, have come, against all odds and contrary to the whole of the community, from crazy, resilient minorities that were born with something "broken" inside, and decided to care. Im joking of course but its true that even though we all have our concerns and fears for the future of the planet, we feel impotent and, often time, turn a blind eye, let ourselves sink into the business as usual lifestyle, because the thought is unbearable. But I think its clear that the solution for this problem is not the survival thing, the everyone for themselves mentality. The civilization can only get better through cooperation and solidarity. We just need to let our fears be heard. Instead of judging others for not taking the actions needed, we should get together and take the actions we can, with however small means we have. Its not about each doing their part, thats not gonna change it. Its about actually getting together, talking about it, building a common dream and working to go in that direction. Change the perception, change the cultural environment. We should teach our kids what is nature, how to be kind to animals, what is our own nature as beings and how to help others and achieve cool things together. That we dont need all the crap they want us to have. And sure, why not, teach them how to build houses with natural materials, to find joy running around the trees and sitting around a campfire singing songs (sure it sounds like a hippie thing to do, but try it, its pretty fun). Or we can teach them how to best their school mates through discipline and private classes, give them all the advantages they need to surprass others and get into those limited university openings. Slave away in that corporate job, climbing the social ladder, rising above others. Stuff like that. I mean, the demented people in power today are all true believers in this sort of world view, living and breathing it. And its no wonder we are going in the direction we are going.

The simple plot line, the foggy and cold environment, the sheer scale and intricate design of the boat, this is all so cool... Pretty amazing. Will be playing for sure.