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Issue: Created a map called cath.map. Made a backup called cath.backup.map Went into Darkmod and dmaped cath.backup.map After it was done I used that "map" command on "cath.backup" and I got an error saying that multiple entites had the same name. (pews_left0). So I opened the .map file for cath.backup.map and changed the entities name to pews_left1 for the copy and now there weren't any copies. So I reopened DarkMod and used the "map" command on cath.backup.map. Got the same error So I tried dmapping again and the upon map got the same error. Hmmm that's weird. I opened the cath.backup.map and there aren't any entities called pews_left0 anymore. Even weirder. So I opened cath.map and changed it's entities that were named the same. I then went into darkmod and was able to use map command on cath.backup.map. I think that their are some problems with the parsing of the filename so that upon encountering the "." period it assumes that's the end of the filename so attaches .map to the end. So to doom 3 the maps cath.backup.map and cath.map are the same file. Is this known?

Oh, nevermind, I didn't see the materials for them earlier, and just saw them in gleeful.mtr. Like I said, I have no idea what I'm doing. As for ASE vs LWO, I don't know but I just saw a thread where New Horizon said we should use LWO. Something about can't have multiple materials on an ASE? I guess the first thing would be getting the target and wall models up. Someone will probably correct me, but these would be the tentative places I'd put them in the CVS directory structure if I had to choose: justice wall model: /models/darkmod/architecture/ target model: /darkmod/models/darkmod/props/misc ?? Actually, just found a thread that explains this stuff (for models at least) : http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=1559 It looks like you should make a separate material file for each model. Also in the material files for the models, make sure to put the surface type in so that arrows stick in the targets, either wood for wood, or surftype15 description "straw" for straw. (Also you can put whatever you want after straw in the description, as long as it's separated by a space). As for non-model textures, and in particular textures specific to the map like the yardage markings on the ground, I'm not sure where those should go. You might want to ask Gildoran since he's the texturing lead. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but maybe someone from modeling/textures can explain it better.

Fire elementals -- http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?act=S...st=0#entry77767 stuck trying to identify the last mesh to set to nodraw Handed it off to scripters to make it take damage from water and to fly.

I usually stay out of discussions like this, mostly because they keep coming up every month or so. However, this time I feel I have to add my two cents. First, the irony of this thread is hilarious. People keep on discussing how long it can take to discuss a simple feature. Perfect. Now, please, you know we're still mixing the dough, no use to ramble on about the decoration of the cake yet.We're well aware things will need ironing out, and if ZylonBane mentions something like how the frob highlight fades in and out in the Thief games for example, we don't just ignore it. We care as much about these details as anyone else, we're fanboys too, after all. We care in fact so much about these little things, that we decided it would enhance productivity to push them aside for the time being and revisit them later - do you honestly believe we wouldn't be eager to put all the fun stuff in there right now? I tell you it's fucking hard to hold back with the storyline, blingbling, decorations, enhancements, improvements, and new ideas. Basic functionality of the Thief games is our event horizon. New lands lie beyond there - I believe I can say that everybody on the team eagerly awaits that we reach this line so we can start with the FUN stuff. Ok, now I'll say a bit about the Wiki Dark Mod Universe blurb. As you know, a toolset should be something versatile that allows for the most freedom in productivity for its user. The amount of "but if someone wants to..." posts in the team forums is insane - I almost pitty the people (especially the coding department), because every time they announce they're done, somebody thinks of a possibilty not covered by the functionality. And they go back to work. (Ishtvan even turned somewhat masochistic lately by challenging people to come up with things the Objective system can't cover) My point is: Even if we try to create a "neutral point of view" toolset, there is a minimum of guidance we need for the developement process. Think artistic consitency, for example. It's either that or you people get unskinned AI, objects, no textures and no sound - to exeggerate a bit. That's what this setting is for. We will indulge in happy hours - nay, days - of squabbling about stuff like faction names and story when the time for this has come. One more. The Thief fan community is a beacon for smart and observant, but unfortunaly also incredibly thick-headed and pedantic people. Put those characters together on a team, and you'll have to agree that a consensus to cover the basics and then go into the war about details is the only way of getting things done. I guess the *ahem* touchy reaction by some people is due to the fact that they would love nothing more than to put in all the little trinkets right now, but have to cope with the self imposed ban. It's like discussing sex infront of a monk who knows sometime, sometime he'll bang through the entire choir eternal. End rant.

I agree with you SneaksyDave. Production has been done professionally by most of the TDM guys before. You can have your cake and eat it too. It will be done - WHEN it is DONE. And yes they already commented on the builders when I asked earlier so search the forums under "Builders" to get your results and don't be so lazy.

You are the one claiming spending time on the forum cuts into other work. Changing a name doesn't equal arguing on a forum. That's what people do in any good business, their job. As a graphic designer for a magazine I manage to do my job and interact with my coworkers and even spend time browsing and posting on internet forums. Imagine that!

Once again, your gamma and monitor settings were probably screwed. I'm looking at the black borders on the forums here, and it's black as black can be. Spend a couple of hours using tweaking programs and messing with your onboard brightness and contrast settings (it took me about 5 hours of screwing with everything before I was happy with the results). If it's a recent rev LCD, you can get blacks looking how you want them.

Try to attach prop to AI - http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=4109 - shorten frob distance to purse - add key to belt upload pump and arrow - http://modetwo.net/darkmod/index....amp;#entry76668

Ever think about publically archiving the team forums when everything is finished? Just to see its genesis. It'd probably be valuable to see these debates years down the road when future people revisit certain ideas. Anyway, another question for after it's done.

Wooo... amazing creatures these rats. Started with 3 together locked in derelict house. As usual they pretty soon head for the back door which is locked. There they hang about until the guard patrols by and unlocks the door. Fortunately for them there is a flaw (reported elsewhere and which the rats have obviously read) and he leaves the door half open. They all scurry out. The black rat turns left and the other two head right. I follow them. I lose track of one of them but the other goes to the next house along and starts scratching at the door and looking back at me imploringly like a little dog waiting for me to open the door. I open it and he goes in. Think I see the pale one too. Then I go back to look for the black rat. He is still hanging around near the derelict house. He scurries round the corner, round the other side as far as the far doorway but it's boarded up so no pathing. He makes his way back, not in one walk but back and forth in increments of different sizes but with seemingly clear intent. When he gets back to the open derelict back door in he darts. He has an apple core in here. This is his route. Not related to path corners as far as I can tell but he just likes the derelict house and its outer walls. I walk back up to the next house and go in. The pale rat is stuck against the dead man's chair moonwalking. His clockwork is running down and his legs moving at half speed. The other rat is scratching for me to let him out the opposite door into the street. I let him out and off he goes, exploring the next street and working his way up. He explores round the next corners back and forth but eventually he decides he likes this house and tends to hang around there. I go back to the derelict house and the black rat is stuck in a corner against an overturned chair that the guard uses to climb up into the rafters. Guess it's too high for the rat. His clockwork is also running down. I go back and find the other rat who eventually also works his way back to the derelict house and also gets stuck in the same place. They are amazingly lifelike and if the problems of getting stuck, and of scratching at doors, and keeping them away from unwanted areas can be worked out then this random scouting around is fascinating. Perhaps some sort of GOTO entities can be set up as perimeters. If a rat reaches that border they get an impulse to goto the centre of the territory again. Whatever random scouting around algorithm you set up greebo it certainly looks convincing. I suspect you generate a target somehow and when they reach it then a new one is generated because they certainly seem to have purpose and intelligence. I hope we can somehow keep this method even if it needs a spawnarg to switch it off in some situations. Footnote: These were all set to team 0. dunno if that is relevant. they ignored me.

I'd have to check, but all three soon headed for the locked door and scurried about there until a guard unlocked it then they escaped into the night! They seemed to have purpose but maybe they were all following the same random string? I agree they are better to move around rather than stay static in general if it not easy to set them up to patrol like other AI. If they can go anywhere uncontrolled by the mapper then I can imagine problems. A mapper might set up an abandoned part of town with rats but not want them in other areas. So they can only be controlled by barriers such as putting them down sewers? What is their step height? Perhaps small steps could be used to keep them in areas. I'm intrigued to follow them now and see just where they go.

Yes, Mike_Mayday, oDDity speaks the truth. We discussed zillions of options, many of which had page after page of debate. Getting down to the core of what was needed was essential so things could get done. You mentioned encumbrance and a loot bag. Those two topics happened to inspire some of the most controversy internally, to my recollection. I don't think any of us wish to re-visit all of that again any time soon; especially not on the public forums

Ok, let's continue this here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=4125

I was googling around, to see how the new teaser had been recieved, when I came accross a thread in the Nvnews forums. I contacted Solis and told him to drop by for a chat. Animations

Hey everyone, After senior year, I talked to a bunch of friends that became very interested in concept art after looking at some of my 'art' which was essentially thedarkmod design work, and would like to work for the team to get some experience and just have some fun this summer designing video games. I told them about the mod, and many have expressed an interest in working for the team. We're all within driving distance of eachother here in Arizona, and could serve as somewhat of a design hub capable of meeting regularly and collaborating on the concept aspect of the mod. There are about 5 other students who would like to contribute; should I get each to register on the forums and apply separately? Let me know what you think.

Whoops, sorry about that, I didn't notice that the message about the Builder was in my spam box. I'm a little confused though, it was just the text of the guard mesh with the vertex coordinates and such. How would I go about creating a working model from that which can be animated in Motionbuilder? I haven't used the MD5 utilities before. But I do have access to the development boards (info and discussion, texture and art/models and animation, beta testing, contributors) so if you want to make a thread in one of those forums for this project, let me know and I can move my questions there. Oh, and on closer inspection of the noblewoman model, it seems like the animation and rig was just a generic one that was included with the program (or another animation package). The bones actually extend outside of the model's constraints in places such as the skirt during the animation, so the movement speed is a little off since her legs aren't actually extending that far.

It does work and the only problems (in a short test) appear to be because of the big size of the rope blocking the AI. I first just stuck in a rope vertically behind a guard and it moved along behind him like an indian rope trick swaying perfectly round corners. Then I noticed he wasn't even attempting to patroll through doors but bypassing them to the next patrol point. Then I rotated the rope and aligned it to trail behind him. Again, this worked but he eventually got stuck between the posts of a canopy as the rope got tangled and the kept turning and tangling his feet with the rope. Again, he avoided doors. But I think all that is just size of the rope and hopefully a small tail on a rat would be OK. In fact might be better than with a stiff tail? I think there is performance hit. Didn't study it but think I was getting about 20 to 25 in one street without and maybe 15 to 20 with the rope but that was a very rough observation as we were continuously moving. Maybe a rat tail of just 2 or 3 bones would be enough. This got me wondering about my snake map - maybe the rope attached to an unrendered silent rat might be fun...

I'm confused with the status thing though - can he see the development boards? I'd start a thread there otherwise. If he's never used our software before, then I think a good place to start would be to take existing anims that have already been done, and doing a straight port to other characters (without actually animating). And/or, to do some actual animating, yeah a ranged attack for combatants would be good. Regarding this list, http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3842 although all combatants have a ranged attack, archers will have a ranged attack anim that is firing a bow, whereas everyone else will have throwing anims, so that's actually 2 anims that need to be done to satisfy that item. So that's 2 anims he can do.

can you post the link for the polish forums? I would like to see the public's opinion.

Gotcha, thanks. Yeah, I zoned out of these forums for a few weeks and missed that.

Oh OK, I was wondering why the other forums weren't showing up before. No big deal though, I get them now, thanks New Horizon. And that's no problem, I haven't done much with the Noblewoman yet, just testing things right now as I learn how the animation system works. The walk cycle that was included with the noblewoman was quite good though, it's a pretty nice example to look at. Although if the Noblewoman can be animated without having to worry about the animations being scrapped later, I can just continue working on that. As long as the rig stays the same, the animations should still work even if the model itself is changed.

Those monsters were scripted in Doom3. In Prey the gravity was changed. Should work in D3 as well though, only the AI would have problems with the original code, and would need some adaption maybe.

Yes, we're trying to design our characters to share animations whenever possible. They are all being created using the same model as a base, though only Oddity and Domarius can comment on whether the skeletons and rigging are the same. You might find this thread useful: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=3841

Bah. Sorry, Solis. I don't know if you can see the modeling and animations forums yet, but we're hashing the above issues out right now. It looks like the noblewoman isn't quite ready to go after all. I hope you haven't done too much with her yet. I just have to get confirmation about something and then I'll send you an alternate task.

The Viktrola is actually finished (by someone else). Post what you're working on in this thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=4066 it's more up-to-date.