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In history, the thiefs tradiational weapon has been the Dagger as well as the cosh. I think it should be added to his standard arsenal. Not to replace the sword... but on those times when you don't take a sword on a mission (there should be a choice), n u get into a tight situation whr a cosh just won't cut it... quick stab to the throat n down he goes with a soft gurlging sound... Give us a Dagger please... and a SOFT SHOE SOUND!!!!!! Sort of Scuffing sound.

As I said. The city can also be done later from somebody else. The major problem that I have with it is, that I don't want to be forced to run through a city that I already know, just to get to some mission entrance. This seems more like a level recycling to me as it was done in T3. It makes the total walking time longer without added maps.

sword or dagger I have seen them both in many of the thief 2 fan missions I have played. its already been done. Both are Good and depending on how many times you may have to kill guards BIG GUARDS you may want a huge sword. many of the fan missions stretched the GAME either this way or That making each level fun and fresh and new. Making it an option or leaving it out all together FANS will Create there own if they really need it ... BUT it would be nice if the Dark mod Teem would right in as many tricks and weapons and bombs and potions as possible. PLUS I don't think that anyone started a game by creating all the stuff to go in it first. Didn't they create game spaces test spaces and then decide "hey that corner looks empty lets make a really cool shrubbery to go there" or "how will the player get to this area up here lets make a rope arrow" when Looking Glass People Gave us the DROMED it allowed us to use items that where created fro the specific levels that came with THIEF the reason some things where called RAMEREZ_CHAIR or something like that is because most of the items in THIEF are made for a specific level. so think about what infinite possibilities for Level storyline one may come up with and create all of them Or create say 15 really cool levels with varying Themes and Loosely cohesive stories that take the Player on a vary cool journey through a interesting Back story Each level Stylized differently and containing all objects and cool stuff that would be in that area (like golden hammers in the Builders Temple and nice Chairs in the dining Room of Lord Constantinople) once you have created all of your levels fully lighted and full of objects and objectives and each with its Toolkit and weapon-kit tailor maid for each mission. Then you will have Object_populated the same way they did when they shipped thief 1. all in all they would not have put a chair in a room if it didn't look empty without it. And they wouldn't have put a blackjack in garrets pocket if they didn't want you to KNOCK OUT THAT GUARD WHILE HIS BACK IS TURNED... SO IF YOU DONT MAKE 13-15 LEVELS WITH OBJECT, WEAPON, AND AI OF VARIOUSE STYLES YOU HAVE NO LIMIT LIKE THIEF 1 AND 2 HAVE ON THE DEMAND FOR OBJECTS AND PEOPLE AND WEOPONS BUY SAYING "HERE IS THE GAME" LOOKING GLASS HAD ALREADY DEFINED ALL THE OBJECTS YOU COULD GET AND USE IN YOUR DROMED. WE HAD TO BE SATISFIED WITH WHAT THEY GAVE US AFTER ALL THEY GAVE US ALL THE OBJECTS FROM THE GAME WE COULDENT EXPECT THEM TO CREAT EXTRA OBJECT FOR JUST INCASE WE NEED A SO AND SO OBJECT. DEFINE YOUR LIST OF OBJECTS AND TOOLS AND AI NOT BY THE REQUEST BUT BY THE LEVELS YOU CREATE (EACH ONE BEING STYLIZED VERY DIFERNT BUT LOOSLY COHESIVE TO THE BACKSTORY) AND NESSESITY

That would be up to the mission designer. If you are asking about our campaign which will be released after the toolset, then we are doing it the Thief way, that is, a mix between humans/monsters. Sorry.

Szivesen átállnék a dromedről valami más szerkesztőre, I like switch form dromed to another editor 3 thief 2 pályát készítettem, legutóbbi a zsaru az árnyékban i make 3 thief2 map, the lastest Cop in the shadow Én mindig optimalizált alacsonhardverigényű pályát próbáltam csinálni I try make optimalised low hardware requirement mission sajnos ez azt okozta hogy a pályáim kidolgozottlannak tünhetnek. this cause my missions sometime look too simple and not very nice. Elég nehéz így két nyelven írnom, lehet nem teszem majd, de így nem csak mi értjük!

Keep in mind that we still haven't done a fullsized mission yet, so we're not totally sure what the ram requirements might be just yet. Since we're going with more detail and higher res textures, I expect it'll eat up a bit more ram than vanilla Doom 3 did. And as it is, D3 is a pretty ram hungry program.

The moment you interact with them in game, some of the mystery is lost. In a six mission campaign there isn't enough time to savour the mystery of who they are, what they are capable of, AND go up against them in-game. Our entire second 'chapter' of the campaign will likely focus on them.

I want the option to remove my EQ for any mission. I'm more tempted to be unstealthy if I have the means to kill. (Simply saying 'Don't use the weapons' doesn't work... I always seem to forget and start killing things.)

Well, the thief will have a sword by default. Of course, any FM author can remove the sword from the equipment list if they choose. There may also be an option for the player to deselect the sword before beginning the mission. We have no plans for implementing a dagger though, as it is basically just a louder blackjack.

Thanks oDDity. Mission accomplished.

oh and a little foresight would tell you that if you have large discreptencies between the time it takes a good and a poor player to lockpick would make a mission much easier for some than for others and generally give mappers huge headaches

Remember, you don't toggle the compass on and off in game. It is either on or it is off at the beginning of the mission. That frees us up, since the two gems don't have to look like they interact. Hell, they don't even have to be the same gem. edit: BT, what method are you using to create the .bmps?

It sounds like the best of both worlds, really =) I'd imagine that you can use the TDM tools to put together mission maps quite rapidly too. Proved wrong about what? Absolutely -- it would be foolish for us to underestimate our charge. It's a disadvantage in one respect, because it's more daunting and time-consuming. But there is a larger variety of activities to be undertaken, so there's always something to be done or explored or discussed. "Concurrent activity", they call it in the military ("activité concommittante" in French). There are no plans for it as yet, but it's not been ruled out. However, because SScar is an original world, there's probably far less interest in FMs than a world like TDM which draws on well-established genres (not the least of which, the medieval genre). That's one of the things I was looking forward to with D3:HoE; a fresh perspective on a known genre. -Glee

I actually did this sketch for something else, but I thought it might work well as a pagan woodland creature...some kind of messed up satyr. It could also be used by FM authors who want to include the Trickster in their mission.

I have a problem with this...our Thief character is supposed to be inferior to trained warriors. He is not a combat veteran by any means. As it doesn't seem to be crucial to the rest of the plot, it might be better if he was away for some other reason. Maybe he was caught and exiled by the old prince of the city, and now that the city has been taken over he sees an opportunity to return. Or perhaps he has been working in another city for a time. I like the first couple missions. I also like the idea that our Thief used to be a high-ranking member of the guild, but there is no one now who remembers him. I also like the idea that the city has been taken over, providing lots of opportunity for political intrigue. I'm not so sure that the Builders would be conquering cities though...they aren't an army. Would a political coup work? They certainly might have the power to overthrow the government. Or perhaps some other force has taken the city, but they have turned power over to the Church. My biggest problem is the ending. I wasn't thrilled with the idea of our thief having a wife and daughter, and the ghostly girl thing makes me think too much of the Cradle in T3. Having the climax be bringing his daughter back to life is not my favourite. It also kind of leaves the whole cauldron thing hanging. Who is 'the baron'? Why was he brought back? He seems to just vanish from the plot. And why does bringing his daughter back to life make him worthy of becoming head of the thieves' guild? That conversation with the new 'baron' didn't make sense to me. Another thing--it still seems like just about every mission is the Thief being 'duped' by someone, or doing someone else's work for them. I got so sick of that in T3...Garrett always did everyone elses dirty work, and never seemed to do things to further his OWN agenda. Still, no story is going to please everyone. I definitely think there is potential here. We can see what the others think.

lol, I never posted anything about em cuz I had already spent tons of time raving about my ideas on IRC. I'll toss out my original idea for em and see what everyone thinks...I've tweaked it a tiny bit due to some good issues Springheel brought up when we last talked about em. The Order (as they shall henceforth be known) should only SEEM to have a purpose, they're never fully explained during the course of the game. On the occasions when you do see em during the earlier missions they're either standing off to the edge waiting for you to leave or are just making an exit themselves and you just catch their leaving. Anything they do, any clues they happen to leave behind, should be vague and mysterious...just giving you enough insite to make you THINK you might know what's going on only to have it change or be contradicted later on. They're our G-Man...they enforce the idea of mystery and leave alot open for interpretation, they're there to make you even more curious about the world you're playing in. Originally I had them set up as sort of a behind the scenes superpower but Spring had a few issues with that...and after thinking it over for awhile I agree with him. They do have the occasional dabblings in innerfaction affairs, and they have the power and strength to push just about anything in their favor with a bit of time and subterfuge, but they usually stay to themselves for the most part. They will on occasion call upon someone from outside to do a favor for them, it could be anyone...from a lowly kitchen maid to a powerful baron. Most that recieve this call know it's in their best interest to oblige them and do what they want...those that don't disappear mysteriously never to be heard from again. They always work in the shadows and have connections from the black market to the richest nobleman. No one knows exactly who they are or what they're doing, they just know them by reputation. If we do have a mission where you invade one of their outposts (and I think we should), it shouldn't be too grandly decorated...they usually stick to the slums as base their operations, only equipping their surroundings with their odd machinery and magical artifacts they need. Any books you find here will give you some idea of how they work, but it won't tell you why they're doing it or what their goals are beyond some very vague hints. Writings and conversation should also vary, from lucid explainations in one book, to odd rambings and drawings in another. Sometimes their plans will even contradict each other...like their own faction has layers upon layers upon layers of conspiracies existing right under their noses. Generally they should be scary as hell, confusing, and very threatening. Even the lowliest of their order exudes an aura of almost unimaginable knowledge and power.

no it's definitely not the shader - as I said before I can even see that in blender. I didn't add the symbol yet, since we haven't started on the mansion mission and we didn't decide, what the name of the house will be BTW renz - did you look into glass-shaders yet? maybe you can help me a bit

This sounds like a very nice idea to add additional objectives which were not possible in the original Thief. Then again it reminds me a bit of the mission where you had to put evidence into a special place as objective. I have added your suggestion to our evaluation process, as we certainl will not do it with the first release. For this we have a thread where we collect ideas that we dont want to forget about, and we discuss such things when we decide what features to put in the next release. As you may understand we can not do everything at once, so we need to define milestones and what features they should include. As we are in the beginning, we focus on core features and will add enhancements later.

The arms look great, oDDIty. I love the texture of the clothing and I like what you've done with the bracers. I hope you're going to add the fingerless gloves at some point. On the topic of the bow, I think your second version is fine. I'm fairly ambivelant about ornamentation...I don't think our Thief is throwing his bow out after each mission, but we aren't going to see much of it up close anyway. As for the fur...the concept is neat, but again, will we actually *see* the bowstring during the animation?

I could use some bits and pieces from that floorplan, but I've already got Goldfish doing some concept art and plans for my mansion mission. I envision it as being a bit more humble than what BT had shown, but still nice and atmospheric...the best example comes from the Marsden Archive (where I've based quite a few of my recent ideas): I like the style, it fits perfectly with what I had in mind from the beginning. A fairly wealthy nobleman of some standing who's family is currently slipping into ruin. They're on their last leg and have definately seen better days, but they still hold enough power at the moment to be somewhat of an influence in the city.

Cool, that might even be big enough to stage the whole mansion mission on, if we added a large cellar full of crypts and scary things, and maybe a few out buildings.

We will definately try to provide as many materials as possible for FM authors to produce a wide variety of locations. I would love to see a mission that takes place in the woods.

Yup, house still standing. Ok, here we go: The revised underground ambient is good. It could possibly be made into a loop since I believe the engine is capable of doing fadeouts anyway. (Right?) The revised musicbox is great (could perhaps be a little longer). Exactly what I meant. I also moved the dotP task from ambients to soundeffects, and named it "frob_instrument_musicbox" and marked it as 95% finished (in case you want to change something). It's now uploaded to CVS as well. (You can always make new revisions of sounds uploaded to CVS once you get it set up.) The waterdrips: I think it would be better to make a longer loop with several drips instead of doing it like that. My guess is that a mission designer would just like to slap on a background loop with a few drips here and there. The actual sounds sound good though. The loot pickup: You're on to something there. I do think we agreed early on that we wanted the loot pickup to sound to be very much like the original. So keep experimenting! Pickup sound: Great! Love it! It's on CVS as well, named "tool_pickup" under sound/sfx/tools. The task on dotP is marked 100% as well. Victrola: Also great. Also now on CVS, named "frob_instrument_victrola". The task is marked 95% finished in case you want to change it, but personally, I think it's great as it is. You could always make a few more tunes and we can then let the level designer choose from a few different victrolas.

All the Thief games use dynamic ambience that blends from one area to another. You have a church with a choir ambience, you walk into a hallway that leads to the crypt and you get a mix of choir and scarey ambience, and when you enter the crypt, you get scarey ambience. I think the mix is done specifically, with an intermediate zone that says "play this AND this as well". But of course, you can hear the ambience from one zone playing over the current one, if you are close enough to it. I think this freedom of re-usability should be maintained. If someone wants to use your ambience where there is NO background hum around, well, I don't think it's so good. Why not make the hum and the music seperate files, and let the author play them both in the level? WILL there be a noticible difference when jumping from 96 to 160? Maybe if you're an audio technician. I used to fiddle with sounds a bit and I don't think I'd notice the difference even if they were overlayed, as long as they both sounded "good" quality. (Whereas I noticed that in older games, I would get used to the 11khz sound quality and think it sounded "good" and then hear something else, like a CD play, and THEN I'd notice the difference when it was overlayed) I'd be keeping the sounds seperate at any cost, just so people can re-use your media. FM authors coming up with interesting uses for the existing T2 media, including ambience, always surprised me. One particular ambience, that I thought suited a deep forest, became freaky and scarey in another mission (cause of the associated visuals of course). (Sorry, usually I edit down my ramblings...)

I also thought that they look like made of bone. At least some of them I can imagine to fit in a hammerite office when they are textured with a metallic silvery look. But I guess some of them should be made to look less organic. Maybe we should take the name Bonehoard literally and make a mission out of it. Something with arcane mages and such. These chairs would perfectly fit such a scenario.