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I think this is probably "it depends". If a single AI is giving a story monologue, it may be implemented as a single .ogg file, just broken up into subtitles. So this would all be in the same slot. (Likewise, there are some long barks in a single .ogg file too). But the story could be in multiple .ogg files, delivered by one or several AI. Then, the slot could vary, if there also barks happening that scrambled things up. I could be wrong about this. I recall there was some chatter a long while ago about making what slot an particular AI uses somewhat sticky. That's interesting, about volume (or distance) threshold triggering of subtitle display. I'm guessing no threshold test is applied for story subs.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

When talking about a possible libre version of TDM (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/) it seems we believe all media/gamedata included in TDM is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA. I am not familiar with how the process of adding new media/gamedata works today; I have seen files uploaded to the bugtracker which developers then commit to SVN, but I don't know if there are other ways. It may be a good idea to implement a process that when new components (media/gamedata included in TDM) are added, the contributor is asked to be explicit about the license (a choice which may defaults to their previous preference, for usability). It won't fix the past, but it may help in the future. This will make it easy for contributors to add future data under a more permissive license if they choose. Libre media can be added and its license can be tracked, rather than assumed to be CC-BY-NC-SA. I suggest looking at how Wikimedia Commons has implemented this: the contributor state the source and license at the time the data is uploaded. This can be done either by providing urls or by saying "It's my work and I choose this licsense". The first step could be to add a way to keep track of each filepath in SVN, author, license, sources. Start by setting the value for each file's license to "(default/legacy CC-BY-NC-SA)". Possible implementations for a user interface for new additions are: * Use our own wiki, which runs Mediawiki (same as Wikimedia Commons). I see several benefits of this, but we also need a way to accept uploads of batches, not just single files. * Look at how other open source projects have solved this. There may be more appropriate solutions available. ... but I'll leave the implementation open. Suggestions are very welcome! If the author of each file already in SVN can be tracked, then it may be possible that the author is willing to give a blanket permission for all their past files in one statement, and all their files in SVN can be updated in one commit. A productive contributor willing to release some of their work under a more permissive license could make a big change. If Dark Radiant would support letting mappers search media/gamedata by license (does it already?), it would make it easier for mappers to create a completely libre mission, which would help facilitate a TDM-libre release. If I understand things correctly. This post does not address all details and it may contain misunderstandings or assumptions, but it's a start. Also relevant: * Is there a compiled and maintained list of recommended or deprecated resources for mappers to use? * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20311-external-art-assets-licensing/

Let's re-do this. Story always has the preference, even if the player is or goes far away from the source. The moment a story line is triggered the whole set is displayed in sequence not matter what (subs keep their slots). If there are no slots available, a bark goes away. If more than three story subtitle require a slot, then we are f***d the oldest story sub goes away. Non-story subs cannot be displayed if the player was far away when they started: we cannot have subs popping in and out of existence in a split sec. However, the moment a sub makes it in because the player was nearby the source, it stays, even if the player goes away. If we miss some non-story subs in the queue because ongoing subs didn't end yet, so be it. Non-story subs must have a way shorter distance than story subs.

Does that work with reloadXData as well? I didn't test with core files. I tested with fm's subtitles. I tested with a subtitle I made (and is now included in fm) for WS5. At the start of the mission you walk for a bit and you get a monologue of some drunk guy containing multiple (sound+)srt files. Later I tested inline on Braeden Church. Btw. do you think these sound files might be used by other missions? Otherwise I would move them to the fm folder including the subtitles. //Note: These sounds are mostly specific to Saint Lucia mission. //But for some reason, they are located in core, so better define their subtitles here. subtitles tdm_stlucia { verbosity story inline "sound/voices/builders/builder1/conversations/builder1_conv_4.ogg" "It is not for me to question Brother Renald, but it does seem that there is naught but rats and beggars to guard against." inline "sound/voices/builders/builder1/conversations/builder1_conv_3.ogg" "As you say. Though the Lord Builder is known to work in ways most mysterious." inline "sound/voices/builders/builder2/conversations/builder2_conv_3.ogg" "Indeed. It is not our place to question. Our obedience doth honor Him." inline "sound/voices/builders/builder1/conversations/builder1_conv_1.ogg" "How much longer must we guard this accursed place?" inline "sound/voices/builders/builder2/conversations/builder2_conv_1.ogg" "The archbishop doth come two days hence." inline "sound/voices/builders/builder1/conversations/builder1_conv_2.ogg" "I should be ashamed to have His Eminence in such a place as this." inline "sound/voices/builders/builder2/conversations/builder2_conv_2.ogg" "It is hard to imagine a true miracle doth take place here." } Edit: I think it's simply possible to do a search in all fm's to see if these files are used outside of Saint Lucia.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

This post differentiates between "gratis" ("at no monetary cost") and "libre" ("with little or no restriction") per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre * A libre version of TDM could: ** Qualify TDM for an article on the LibreGameWiki *** TDM is currently listed as rejected https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki:Rejected_games_list because "Media is non-commercial (under CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0). The engine is free though (modified Doom 3) (2013-10-19)" ** Qualify for software repositories like Debian *** TDM is currently listed as unsuitable https://wiki.debian.org/Games/Unsuitable#The_Dark_Mod because 1) "The gamedata is very large (2.3 GB)", and 2) "The license of the gamedata (otherwise it must go into non-free with the engine into contrib)" and links to https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/LICENSE.txt Questions: 1) tdm_installer.linux64 is 4.2 MB (unzipped), which is far from the 2.3 GB which is said to be too large. Yes, the user can use it to download data that is non-libre, but so can any web browser too. If the installer itself is completely libre, does anyone know the reason why it cannot be accepted into the Debian repository? 2) If adding the installer to the repository is not a viable solution, would it be possible to package the engine with a small and beginner friendly mission built only from libre media/gamedata into a "TDM-libre" release, and add user friendly functionality to download the 2.3 GB media/gamedata using "TDM-libre" (similar to mission downloading)? 3) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for the Debian repository? 4) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for LibreGameWiki? 5) Would the work be worth it? * Pros: Exposure in channels covering libre software (e.g. the LibreGameWiki). Distribution in channels allowing only libre software (e.g. the Debian repository). * Cons: The work required for the modifictions and release of "TDM-libre". Possible maintenance of "TDM-libre". I'm thinking that the wider reach may attract more volunteers to work on TDM, which may eventually make up for this work and hopefully be net positive. 6) Are there any TDM missions that are libre already today? If not, would anyone be willing to work on one to fulfill this? I'll contribute in any way I can. 7) I found the following related topics on the forum: * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16226-graphical-installers-for-tdm/ (installing only the updater) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16640-problems-i-had-with-tdm-installation-on-linux-w-solutions/ (problems with installation on Linux) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17743-building-tdm-on-debian-8-steamos-tdm-203/ (Building TDM on Debian 8 / SteamOS) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18592-debian-packaging/ (Dark Radiant) ... but if there are other related previous discussions, I'd appreciate any links to them. Any thoughts or comments?

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

In a few lists, TDM missions are presented sorted (or sortable) alphabetically: * In the mission downloader GUI * On the web page: https://www.thedarkmod.com/missions/ * On the wiki: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod The Chicago Manual of Style (CMOS) recommends placing initial articles (The, A, An) at the end of the full title: "A Tale of Two Cities" would appear as "Tale of Two Cities, A". Titles do not include subtitles unless they are essential for identification. If a subtitle is included, the initial article should be placed at the end of the full title, not before the subtitle. (https://style.mla.org/articles-and-alphabetization/) I mentioned this in "0006339: Polishing menus: mission downloader" (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6339), but I suggest following CMOS in all cases where titles are an entry in a list.

Change the subtitle setting from Story to On in the audio menu. You will now see subtitles for standard AI greetings / barks.

Thanks! 1) Doing LONG_PRESS PAD_A (what I, for lack of knowledge, call "jump-mantle" or "_jumpmantle") differs from doing PRESS PAD_A ("_jump"). "_jumpmantle" differs from "_mantle", so they must be mapped to different button-calls. "_jumpmantle" differs from "_jump", so they must also be mapped to different button-calls. This appears to be the case, but it is not evident (or changeable) in DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. "_jumpmantle" seems to be hard coded to always connect to the same button as "_jump" but with a long press. It is as if bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" is not actually just binding PRESS PAD_A to "_jump", but rather interpreted as "link PAD_A (regardless of button press time) to behave exactly like keyboard SPACE for short and long presses". I would have expected the default DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to explicitly read: bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_A "_jumpmantle" bindPadButton PRESS PAD_B "_crouch" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_B "_mantle" ... but neither LONG_PRESS PAD_A or "_jumpmantle" is listed in the file. If there are actions "_jump" and "_mantle", I suppose there must also be an action "_jumpmantle" since it is possible for the player to do all those movements: * "_mantle" does the movements "crouch on the high surface, then stand up" * "_jumpmantle" idoes the movements "jump slightly forward, then land standing on the high surface" * "_jump" idoes the movements "jump up, then land exactly where you started" If the actions "_jump" and "_moveup" are not synonymous, then perhaps the action "_moveup" is what i call "_jumpmantle"? 2) Thanks for the link! It was useful in more than one way. I'll link to that page from https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Bindings_and_User_Settings#Gamepad_Default_Bindings if I can get an account on the wiki, which proved more difficult than i thought (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/). However, it does not answer my question how to find out the name ("<button>") used for a button on my gamepad. Basically, I would need to press the button on my gamepad and some program could tell me "That button is called 'PAD_A'". In my case, I have a gamepad "Logitech F310" (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech_F310_Gamepad.jpg) which has a "Logitech button" (see image) that I want to use. I was hoping to find out the "button name" for that button and then edit DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to map it to a function. 3) ... but if that button has an "unusual name" that TDM does not recognize, then it may perhaps not work. E.g. if that button is called "PAD_LOGITECH" and TDM cannot recognize that name, then I cannot map anything to it via DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. Using QJoyPad I can map any keyboard key to it instead, as a workaround, but I cannot map MODIFIER to it (since MODIFIER cannot be set to a keyboard key). If current implementation is still called "experimental", then I must say it works very well; @cabalistic: kudos for that! I may not have continued playing TDM had it not worked with a gamepad.

I tested editing inline subtitle in tdm_stlucia.subs. That's a core file and I test on SVN, so all core assets are unpacked. It works. I edited it before triggering the sound, and then triggering it showed me the new subtitle text. I also checked in the code. Whenever some .subs file is detected as modified, all the subtitles are reloaded completely. What setup do you have specifically?

It is possible that this is a setting that needs to be activated to work: https://mantisbt.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23221

I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

True. Regarding this dynamic design, it could be argued that we should ignore the Acquired field (Inventory Pickup Message), since messages there are shown rarely, and not at all if the user turns it off. Instead, place the low subtitle slot just above the breath bar. Then all the subtitles slots would be lower. However, this would increase overlap with the corners, unless some mitigation was done. That could be done engine-side, if the slot-fill priority was changed to, e.g., middle-slot first, low-slot last. So the conflict-prone low-slot becomes rarely used. Other mitigating ideas - - move the Acquired field to the top, right under the Objectives Message field - do away with the Acquired field, and instead deliver its message using the subtitle mechanism (possibly with color markup or a different font than regular subtitles). This would require an engine enhancement, to generate a subtitle given a runtime-assembled string, without any sound file.

This is based on the tdm_subtitles_message.gui given in the stgatilov's post you referenced, and also identically in 2.12 beta 3. I have reviewed this as you requested. I can't speak to the accuracy of the green bars in your screenshots, but the calculation seems correct. It derives from the calculation in mainmenu_settings_guisize.gui (of beta3), which finds the top edge of the bounding box of the Inventory Pickup Message (e.g., "Acquired 80 in Jewels"), then reduces that to account for the subtitle backing field height of 37, plus a 4 pixel gap between the lowest subtitle field and the pickup message. I also confirmed that the beta3 calculation of the top edge of Inventory PickupMessage is identical in both mainmenu_settings_guisize.gui and tdm_inv.gui; the latter is part of the HUD during game play.

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

The subtitles of The Cynic (aka Bernie) vocal set, are now available for eventual incorporation into TDM: testSubtitlesCynic.pk4 This male character is often snide or crabby. In addition to general barks, there are phrases for a guard of the city watch, and for a trader. Note for Integrators This release incorporates and supercedes the TDM 2.10 subtitle demo, provided by @Dragofer, with its version of tdm_ai_cynic.subs. Likewise, it obviates the need for the distribution's fm_test_subtitles_ai_cynic_dragofers_dozen.shdshd Statistics In file fm_root.subs there are 301 inlines, including: 40 with an explicit linebreak, intending 2 lines 261 without 23 of these have explicit duration extensions, as follows: 16 from 0.25 to 0.49, for 17 cps 7 capped at 0.50 seconds, for 17-20 cps none with more than 0.50 seconds, for 20 cps There are 12 SRTs, including: 10 with 2 messages 1 with 3 messages 1 with 4 messages Of the 27 total SRT messages, there are: 17 with an explicit linebreak, intending 2 lines 10 without In all, there are 313 voice clips with subtitles, showing 328 messages. Corresponding Excel File TheCynicSubtitles.xlsx This is based on Version 6 of the Excel Template for TDM bark subtitles. The "Script Subtitle" column contains Dragofer's original subtitles. About the GUI Like The Drunk, subtitle backing fields for The Cynic uses the "tabbed widget" design, with reduced main field heights, one of several design alternatives that were being discussed. For the sound source widget itself, it uses snatcher's white sector oval provided by beta3.

I believe the subtitle Stone font is currently scaled to 11.52 pts, instead of 12 pts. I have asked before whether that is the intended scaling, or inadvertent, but heard nothing. In tdm_subtitles_common.gui, there is: #define SUBTITLES_TEXT_SCALE 0.24 In TDM 2.11, it was: #define SUBTITLES_TEXT_SCALE 0.25 Where a scale of 1.0 represents 48 pts.

Btw. is there a way to reload subtitles without restarting tdm? So let's say I test a subtitle and then I edit the subtitle while the game is running. If I load a save I don't get the edited subtitle it seems.

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

Not technically, no. snatcher, maybe it's soon time for a subtitle Modpack to offer some of the design alternatives.

It appears it's only affecting the vertical positioning of the subtitle slot stack, so I wouldn't think it affects max chars per slot

Does this guarantee that the same (maximum) amount of characters fit in that subtitle box at any time?