Upgrading CPU?

[jdude]

My brother is thinking about upgrading his CPU for his computer. Currently his specs are:

3 gb DDR2 ram

xfx Geforce 9600 GT 512mb

1.87 core 2 duo Intel

 

His computer is an Aspire E700

and his Motherboard is an FG965M

 

Me and him both know very little about upgrading a CPU and we were even thinking about replacing his motherboard. The issue is he gets lag when special effects like light calculations in Left4Dead 2 come about and we were thinking a new CPU would likely solve his problem since his GPU is pretty good still.

 

So do you think a new CPU would help boost his FPS in gaming?

Additionally

How do you tell which CPUs would fit into his motherboard? I tried googling it with no success.

 

Thanks in advance from both me and him

[STiFU]

You basically just have to check whether it's the right socket, which is "Intel Socket 775" in your case. So you can buy any core 2 cpu (duo and quad). I have a core 2 quad q6600 and it's still doing well. It currently costs about 160€.

 

You are right about the graphics card. It's still pretty good. On my side the graphics card is the bottleneck (gefore 8800 GTS). But as soon as fermi (the dx11 card of nvidia) is finally released, that won't be a problem anymore!!

 

You have 3 gb of RAM installed, which is rather unusual, since it isn't running in dual channel then, or at least not all of it. Dual channel gives you an approximately doubled access-speed. I don't know though whether your board even supports dual channel as I also couldn't find any info on the net about it. This is not that much of an issue, but performance would be better, if dual channel is properly setup.

[Bikerdude]

How do you tell which CPUs would fit into his motherboard? I tried googling it with no success.

 

Ok I've found some info in your bros computer -

 

http://support.acer....reE700sp2.shtml

 

Based on the above info and my professional knowledge, the fastest CPU you should be able to upgrade too is the E6850, which is a socket 775 'Conroe' based Core2duo - but I would confirm this with acer to be absolutely sure! But that is only half the issue solved, with your new shiny and fast Cpu your gonna need a gfx card that can keep up. This is where I cant advise until I know what your bro's budget is....

 

Edited February 20, 2010 by Bikerdude

[Serpentine]

You are right about the graphics card. It's still pretty good. On my side the graphics card is the bottleneck (gefore 8800 GTS). But as soon as fermi (the dx11 card of nvidia) is finally released, that won't be a problem anymore!!

 

Dont hold out for a Fermi or fermi based card, the fermi cards will all be extremely expensive, hot, eat power and generally wont do much to be consumer friendly, there are no derived products in planning (they will come post release, but a good few months), but unless you want to spend 400+, dont hold out for the first gen. If you happen to want to read about the issues : here

 

Yay for companies with bad management and uncompetitive practices \o/ need to go the same way of Creative.

[STiFU]

Oh thanks, Serp. I have been searching quite a bit for decent info about fermi. Seems like I'll have to wait for the next generation like my friends predicted. Or get a geforce 9, but that's hardly an upgrade. I do need something better before Witcher 2 is released though...

[7upMan]

STiFU, the graphics card of your choice would be something from ATI's HD5000 series. Depending on your budget, I'd say go for a HD5850 - not too expensive and considerably faster than your old Nvidia part.

 

Serpentine, you beat me to posting the SA article. You know, although ppl tend to dismiss what Charlie is writing because he's such an Nv hater, all his predictions concerning Fermi have come true.

 

 

[STiFU]

Argh ATI! Why should I pay money for getting problems with TDM?? ^^ I'd rather get a gtx285 then or two gtx275.

[Serpentine]

You wouldnt have those problems with doom3 if nV hadnt invested a whole lot of time and money in its uncompetitive 'the way its meant to be played' sabotaging of games and screwing you the consumer later on Notice how games in the last 9 months havent been wearing the badge cos they cant spend time on sending engineers around to make specific changes? notice how games seem to be strangely running well on all hardware? A friend went over to work for them on the DX10 driver a few years back and was pretty sickened by just how under hand all of their work was, how they had meetings about the whole 8 and 9 series failures before they reached the market (and that they are still trying to hide these meetings due to the massive class action still pending, which the court is trying to find evidence of these meetings).

 

Argh ATI! Why should I pay money for getting problems with TDM?? ^^ I'd rather get a gtx285 then or two gtx275.

Good luck, they dont actually make them anymore so all you find on the net is overpriced stock that is selling slowly.

 

Yes, I've spent a week fighting the nvidia linux binary driver and have grown much hate for it and them.

[jdude]

My brother is spending 500-700 dollars I think. I thought the 9600 he has is still really good though

[Baddcog]

I think the 9600 is probably pretty decent, I was running a 6600 cpu and an 8600gts and it did pretty well.

 

But Once I put my new 5850 card in it is leaps and bounds better than the 8600. The 9600 is probably right in between, so I think with an upgraded quad core faster cpu he'd pobably notice quite a difference. And that's only $160 or so.

 

Of course if he wanted to boost performance a better GPU would help too. Mine was about $350. But it is LARGE, so you probably need to measure the case and look at card specs. I have an antec 900 case which is large and the card fits, but is tight on the cables going to my backup HD, and it is thick so it blocks one of my fire wire mobo ports, the other is a tight fit (not that I even use one of them).

 

But he MIGHT also have SLI compatability, have to check the comp specs. In which case another 9600 (for cheap) would boost peformance too.

 

For 700 he could probably build a decent new tower from new egg. New tower, mobo, dual channel ram (if his can't do that), PSU and CPU. Sometimes trying to squeeze new stuff into stock computers can be a pain.

[Bikerdude]

My brother is spending 500-700 dollars I think. I thought the 9600 he has is still really good though

The problem with the 9600 is it was a re-hash of the 8000 series, it was marked as a replacement fore the 8800GT, but as always the case the older card is still faster. The 9600 only has 64 cores, where as the 8800GT has 96. And nVidia carried on with the bullshit and the renaming - the 8800GTS(g92) which became the 9800GTX which became the GTS250 - the cards are identical bar the clock speeds.

 

For the $300 mark the HD5850 is the best card atm.

[7upMan]

My brother is spending 500-700 dollars I think.  I thought the 9600 he has is still really good though  

 

Say, has your brother tried to overclock his CPU? In this case, a simple CPU cooler upgrade would help to keep the CPU cool and stable. Intel CPUs usually overclock very well, so 3 GHz could be within reach.

[Bikerdude]

Say, has your brother tried to overclock his CPU? In this case, a simple CPU cooler upgrade would help to keep the CPU cool and stable. Intel CPUs usually overclock very well, so 3 GHz could be within reach.

seconded, the old conroe E6300 thats in your bro's system etm is a monster overclocker, but the mobo in the acer may not support overclocking which is why I didnt mention it..

Edited February 21, 2010 by Bikerdude

[aidakeeley]

I wonder why Intel and AMD don't sell the CPUs at a higher clock rate and make more money themselves? Think about how much money they could make on the thousands of CPUs they sell if only they'd just knock the price up that bit on each one...

 

I wonder why they don't do that. It's weird. Ain't it?

[STiFU]

It's usually like this. Many chips have been created on a single wafer. Some of them, will be unusuable, some of them will be of minor quality and some of them are completely good. What they do now is to sell the completely good ones on a higher clock (most of the time) as an expensive cpu and they sell ones of minor quality as a cheaper cpu. So it might just happen, that the issues with your cpu are really negligible or that it is even actually one of the expensive CPUs. If there is more demand on the cheaper ones, they sometimes sell you the expensive ones.

[7upMan]

Same with AMD and the cripple tripple core Phenoms/Athlons. In part, these are CPUs where one core is really defective, but often there's such a high demand for these in-between CPUs (as in between a quad core and a dual core) that perfectly good four-core chips are sold as triple or even dual core. If your mobo supports ACC, you have a good chance to unlock the switched-off core(s) and make a great bargain.

 

As for the Intel CPU, it also depends on what software tools you use. While you can't raise the voltage if the mobo/bios doesn't support it, you can go a long way with the stock voltage alone. Just find a hardware forum and ask the overclocking gurus there, they sure will be glad to help.

 

 

[7upMan]

Oh thanks, Serp. I have been searching quite a bit for decent info about fermi. Seems like I'll have to wait for the next generation like my friends predicted. Or get a geforce 9, but that's hardly an upgrade. I do need something better before Witcher 2 is released though...

 

Even worse news for you, bro, is found here: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/20/semiaccurate-gets-some-gtx480-scores/

 

 

"The GTX480with 512 shaders running at full speed, 600Mhz or 625MHz depending on whichsource, ran on average 5 percent faster than a Cypress HD5870, plus or minus alittle bit. The sources were not allowed to test the GTX470, which is likely anadmission that it will be slower than the Cypress HD5870."

 

So waiting for Fermi will be quite pointless, or so it seems.

 

EDIT: And this is the main reason why I don't like Nvidia: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1051123/nvidia-cuts-reviewers-gts250

 

 

Edited February 22, 2010 by 7upMan

[STiFU]

Hehe, I don't care what a company does as long as I get along well. So far I had way more luck with nvidia cards than I had with ATI cards and reading about all the shit some people around here have to go through with their ATI just fortifies my standpoint.

 

Thanks for the info anyway. The first link is down though. But you guys should stop reading biased articles... Never trust any information that isn't presented objectively!

 

But well, nvidia seems to always have a cycle of one good generation and one crappy generation. I am sure the next one will kick AMD's ass!! ;D

[7upMan]

Don't know which link you mean. Anyway, since Anand from AnandTech has experienced the same things (like being shut out because he didn't praise PhysX and CUDA to heavens), I trust that Charlie's articles are essentially true. So far, he was right with all of his predictions and rants.

 

Anyway, regarding Catalyst AI, it's three or four clicks to disable AI, and TDM runs perfectly well. Also, I have no idea why ppl are complaining so much about ATI cards/drivers. I for one have little to no issues, and I'll be happy to buy the HD5870/2GB once it reaches a sane price point.

 

 

[Serpentine]

Seriously, no one should want nV to win generations - its bad for the consumer and bad for the future of PC gaming. If you do a bit of digging about, there is a great deal of harm done with all of their kickbacks and underhanded dealings. While at the time of purchase you might be getting good performance, it is only in the future that the cost is incurred. If all (not all, but 95%) software was developed without the influence of hardware vendors, oh how the world would be a better place.

[jdude]

Okay he seems excited to buy the ATI 5850, but for CPUs he's looking at:

 

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 / 2.5 GHz Processor for $180.00

and

Intel Core 2 E8400 LGA775 3.00G 6MB 1333MHz FSB $220.00

 

Which would be better for gaming?

 

I've tried finding benchmarks that compare the two with no luck. And I'm confused because one has Quad and one s Duo.

He will also be getting which ever MOBO is suggested by our local computer store to go with his new processor.

 

About the Video card. Were are going to have to get it off Newegg.ca (Canadian funds)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=HD+5850&x=0&y=0

What's the difference between all these cards? Which has the best cooling as well? In summer the temperature rises to about 38 degrees Celsius and my old x1950 had issues running in the heat because it had no fan.

[Mortem Desino]

I have the latter CPU (E8400) in my Asus p5q-e motherboard. It's a happy match, and it over/underclocks well. Temperature is very very stable, even with the stock heatsink and fan, even though mine has the inclination to get rather dusty.

 

It hasn't coughed at a thing I've thrown at it, including the typical "Dark Mod/DR/Visual C++/GIMP/Media Player" multitasking I do.

[7upMan]

Check AnandTech here: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=52&p2=56&c=1

 

Although he has no Q8300 to compare, he has a Q8200 and a Q8400, so you can safely assume that the results of the Q8300 are right between them.

 

Also, while this page is in German, you can find results for E8400 and Q8200 here: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/2009/test_prozessoren_2009/2/#abschnitt_das_neue_testsystem

 

But the comparisons you are really looking for are these: http://www.hardware.fr/articles/778-1/comparatif-geant-131-processeurs-intel-amd.html

 

and this: http://www.pcworld.fr/article/comparatif-de-100-processeurs/les-100-processeurs-testes-la-liste/86251/

 

Good luck! 

 

 

 

 

Quick note: You are absolutely sure that your bro's mobo can run these CPUs?

 

 

[Baddcog]

Okay he seems excited to buy the ATI 5850, but for CPUs he's looking at:

 

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 / 2.5 GHz Processor for $180.00

and

Intel Core 2 E8400 LGA775 3.00G 6MB 1333MHz FSB $220.00

 

Which would be better for gaming?

 

I've tried finding benchmarks that compare the two with no luck. And I'm confused because one has Quad and one s Duo.

He will also be getting which ever MOBO is suggested by our local computer store to go with his new processor.

 

About the Video card. Were are going to have to get it off Newegg.ca (Canadian funds)

http://www.newegg.ca...HD+5850&x=0&y=0

What's the difference between all these cards? Which has the best cooling as well? In summer the temperature rises to about 38 degrees Celsius and my old x1950 had issues running in the heat because it had no fan.

 

I've got this one

http://www.newegg.ca...0-454-_-Product

 

Remember to measure the case, these cards are LONG (9.5"). Still an inch shorter than the 5870 though. It has been working great, the fan does make a bit of a high pitched whine (when the card is cranking) that bothered me at first, but I got used to it. Most people say they don't notice.

The BLACK edition is an over clocked non-black one ($15 cheaper). I didn't realize at the time or wouldn't have bought the Black edition. There are like 3 varities.

Anyway, I have 'underclocked' mine so it's stock speeds and it still smokes, very fast.

 

I found XFX seemed to have the best customer satisfaction while the comments I read on HIS and Gigabyte didn't sound as good.

 

As far as cooling, all the cards has the same fan/wind tunnel design. So they should all be the same.

 

I have an antec 900 case though, and it is full of fans, my comp never overheats. (2 fans in front of HD's, one up top pulling air out, one in back, plus holes for one on side panel. So I can't say how well the card would do in a more enclosed case. However it's fan does blow it's air out the back in it's own duct. My fan never goes over 50%, plus these cards were made to run as cool as possible. If it's not being used it uses less power=less heat...

 

Still, make sure he has a 500+ watt Power supply. This card needs AT LEAST that. Recommended 650 (i think) if using crossfire.

It also takes 2 power cables (6 or 4 pin - has 2 adaptors fro 6>4), might even have molex adaptors, I'd have to check.

-------

As far as processors it depends what he does I think.

 

Multi tasking is better on a quad. I often have photoshop, 3d program, DR, internet, music... at once. So more cores spreads the load out and programs don't bog down on each other fighting for processor. I've even got used to setting affinity so I can tell my DVD burner to use core 1 and play a game on cores 2,3,4 and it runs great.

 

But alot of programs themselves don't really support multi cores yet. The processor can split their load, but they can't send specific strings to specific cores.

 

But if he does one thing at a time. Just playing a game, I'd think the 3.0 speed would be best. Since he's not throwing a ton of stuff at the processor programs won't be tripping over each other.

 

I don't fully understand it all myself, but I think a dual core with a fast speed is best for one task at a time, while a slightly slower speed with quads is best for multi tasking (of course a 3.0 quad would be best for everything, but that's a cost issue)

[jdude]

Well he decided on getting the HD5850 black and E8400 intel duo processor.

 

The GPU requires 500W and the processor says about 60W. His power supply is 550W, so do you think he will need to upgrade?