Horse

[Arcturus]

I think horse deserves a separate topic. All existing animations were corrected. Walk still could be improved but they work. AF is still not stable though. Problem is, bodies bend beyond the constraints. Either AF could still be improved or it's bad MD5 files. I hope it's the former. Rag doll generally works but it takes some time for it to settle down. I don't know how to fix it yet. I'm going to leave it for few days now.

[Fidcal]

Just for reference...

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/10651-submissions-of-any-kind-prefabs-fms-textures-models-and-any-other-help/page__view__findpost__p__216270

[Arcturus]

It's very good. Head is more detailed than my model. I wouldn't be surprised if rich_is_bored made better model than me. I'm not happy with mine as it's anatomicaly far from being perfect and mesh / texture is one big mess. My horse is practically ready though. Only problem left is when too much force is applied to ragdoll like when frobbing and then throwing its legs or sometimes hitting it with a sword. It jumps few meters then. Apart from that it needs few more animations, colour variations, skin system for turning saddle and rug invisible (I don't know how to do that). There's still some programming to do.

 

Ok, so it's not ready yet But it's close

[Fidcal]

Well I or Springheel can make a skin file when the time comes. It basically lists the model(s) then two textures to be swapped on one line with a space between, eg, leather nodraw. Are you ready for that now? is this model on SVN? Is this rideable?

[Arcturus]

There are two entities under simple_animals: horse_rideable2 and horse_tame2. Both are working but I imagine tame will be first to finish and publish.

[Arcturus]

Here's how horse walks on stairs without inverse kinematics.

 

 

So I've been experimenting with IK and first attempts look horrible.

 

 

I will need more bones unfortunately.

 

 

[Fidcal]

Not necessarily. The max step height can be set for each AI type so maybe the horse could be set for a very low step? Just don't enter it for the Grand National.

[Arcturus]

This might help but we will need at least two more "ik_dir" bones. These bones help to set direction in which knee is bending. By default knees are bending like human knees. Back legs of horse are built different however:

 

 

Second thing is, I think I need to add four foot bones on a ground level. Currently "heel" bones are set as feet and they are slightly above ground. Legs are sliding now noticeably even when walking on even ground which may be caused by this (I'm guessing).

[Arcturus]

I uploaded horse with IK system. Unfortunately I don't know how to fix sliding feet. I added new idle animation and tweaked walk and gallop. It looks funny when horse stands on slope:

 

 

It looks better with this pose:

 

 

I would have to change all idle animations though I don't know if it wouldn't look weird if there were more horses all standing in the same pose. On the other hand with rug on it's not so bad:

 

 

I also uploaded test/horse.map with some horses walking and running. Those two horses that stand still are rideable. You sometimes need to wait few seconds for current animation to stop before it moves forward. There is funny bug when you frob a horse while riding the other.

[Springheel]

Looks good!

[Arcturus]

Uploaded slightly modified AF. Ragdoll should be a little more stable.

[Arcturus]

So, have you guys seen test/horse.map? Any comments? Most of the problems with rag doll can be solved by making AF more stiff I guess. But then It would need to have death animations because it would not collapse only under in-game forces. I also can't fix the sliding caused by IK.

[Tels]

So, have you guys seen test/horse.map? Any comments? Most of the problems with rag doll can be solved by making AF more stiff I guess. But then It would need to have death animations because it would not collapse only under in-game forces. I also can't fix the sliding caused by IK.   

 

I have seen the testmap, mightily impressive. I cannot offer any help on your issues, tho.

 

I noticed that the horse head clips severly into the wall (if you ride it close), tho. Also, I found it quite cumbersome to get off the horse again, I don't even know how I finally managed it...

[Arcturus]

I have seen the testmap, mightily impressive. I cannot offer any help on your issues, tho.

 

I noticed that the horse head clips severly into the wall (if you ride it close), tho. Also, I found it quite cumbersome to get off the horse again, I don't even know how I finally managed it...

 

Yes, Ishtvan could help with these if he could. I'm not able to finish the horse myself. Any help would be appreciated.

[Springheel]

I think it looks quite good, and the galloping is very impressive. About the sliding when walking, have you tried disabling the ik for that animation? I forget the exact command but I think I did it for one of the spider animations if you check that def file.

 

Also, he could probably use some kind of pain animation, as it seems like he just ignores damage atm (maybe set him to flee after any HP damage). Not sure that the "death" sound is very horselike either.

 

Small details though...I think he's a good candidate for the next release.

[Arcturus]

I think it looks quite good, and the galloping is very impressive. About the sliding when walking, have you tried disabling the ik for that animation? I forget the exact command but I think I did it for one of the spider animations if you check that def file.

Disabling IK is an option, but its purpose was to avoid this in the first place:

 

http://modetwo.net/d...&attach_id=4650

 

I don't know which is worse.

 

Also, he could probably use some kind of pain animation

This I can do.

Not sure that the "death" sound is very horselike either.

This I can't.

[Fidcal]

Just took a look and forgetting for a moment the anim probs this is just awesome. First sight was a shock quite frankly even though I've seen the other horse we had before a couple of years ago. To see these horses moving around my jaw dropped. Wonderful.

 

This horse looks beautiful and really does have a sense of aliveness. The tiny animations like ears and the neck muscles when you are on top - wow.

 

Generally the animation is excellent except for the things already mentioned. I think it is well good enough to release as a beta. All the functionality is there. The step and slope anim is not so bad. The hoof sliding is a small imperfection that can be improved later. The wooden turning action is always going to be disappointing but I think we have to live with that. Has a larger turning circle been considered? But that might produce a worse problem navigating streets or whatever.

 

The death anim not bad, the sound is adequate as beta.

 

I assume this horse is on passive animal team like rats? I just tried it on team 2 and all the horses came at me but no means to attack. They need to flee if they come across eg, spiders or other enemy teams.

 

Are two or three skins planned? I'd have thought a black and white plus a pure black and pure white?

 

HUGE candidate for next release imo. These will be might impressive and I think we need to make some kind of upgraded demo map or work them into a map that is being released with the update. I don't mind helping out there if I can. Or alternatively a video. But I would like to see a map because if we promote these as beta and play it down a bit then players are just going to be awestruck when they see them.

[Baddcog]

One thing to check on the bouncy af is that the mass is set to -1. Otherwise things get multiplied and stuff starts to bounce.

 

I was messing with my lantern bot today and tried different masses, all jumped around except -1.

 

 

It is pretty cool and looks pretty good, but it seems like the top of the back leg is weird. Like the joint is too far down, it looks odd above the knee to me, the horse in the pic looks much skinnier there.

The knee is too far back. It should be well under the horse, the top of the leg should actually bend foward to the knee I think.

 

I did try to load up the map, but I don't have an svn instal so I copied stuff over. def, af, models, anims, tex... Must be missing something. A script?

[Springheel]

Disabling IK is an option, but its purpose was to avoid this in the first place:

 

Hmm. My first thought is that the horse will be walking on level surfaces a lot more than it will be walking on stairs or slopes. But the sliding isn't terrible, so I don't know.

[Arcturus]

The wooden turning action is always going to be disappointing but I think we have to live with that. Has a larger turning circle been considered?

Don't NPC have some turning left / turning right animations? Can we make something like that?

 

Are two or three skins planned? I'd have thought a black and white plus a pure black and pure white?

I'll make new textures, I wanted to finish animations first.

 

These will be might impressive and I think we need to make some kind of upgraded demo map or work them into a map that is being released with the update.

I could help if we decide to make new showcase map.

 

One thing to check on the bouncy af is that the mass is set to -1. Otherwise things get multiplied and stuff starts to bounce.

 

I was messing with my lantern bot today and tried different masses, all jumped around except -1.

Mass is set to 600. Setting to 0 or less seems to disable all the constraints:

 

It is pretty cool and looks pretty good, but it seems like the top of the back leg is weird. The knee is too far back. It should be well under the horse, the top of the leg should actually bend foward to the knee I think.

Back leg actually bends like this:

 

[Baddcog]

Did you try a number less than 0, or did you try -1?

 

-1 is supposed to keep the mass (I presume from the def file), but 600 would multiply the mass from the def file across every constraint.

 

Well, now I can't find where that is, but most afs are set to one.

----------

 

I could look at it if I knew which files I was missing, the map just wont load up. Looks like it will, then back to menu, no errors ?

 

I didn't see a script file for horses.

[SneaksieDave]

Wow! Glad you pointed this map out, I missed mention before. Incredible work Arcturus!

 

I'd comment more but I'm going riding atm.

 

 

Edit: You can get some weirdness by first hitting them with water (they take notice and start looking around spinning), then broadhead, sometimes -- he came at me and got stuck within me, couldn't get out.

[Springheel]

Not sure that the "death" sound is very horselike either.

 

This I can't.

 

Maybe someone can track down some decent horse sounds on the internet somewhere?

[Arcturus]

Did you try a number less than 0, or did you try -1?

"Total mass" 0, -1 or any negative number give the same effect. Maybe it's the combination with other values.

 

I could look at it if I knew which files I was missing, the map just wont load up. Looks like it will, then back to menu, no errors ?

 

I didn't see a script file for horses.

I don't know how to help you.

 

You can get some weirdness by first hitting them with water (they take notice and start looking around spinning), then broadhead, sometimes -- he came at me and got stuck within me, couldn't get out.

I hoped someone else would look into its behaviour.

[Fidcal]

I would think an actual recording of a horse dying must be quite rare. Here are few whinnies and neighs from freesound which might serve. Probably the last listed here are the best. These are free to use with an acknowledgement...

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=79085

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=79084

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=59569

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19813

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19812

 

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19494