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This is what Renzatic wants in the game, but he's too shy and backward to post about it himself.

I think we should have them in the main game and not just a specific mission.

They'd make our subsitute for Keepers, though they aren't the same type of bookeeping interfering glyph-botherers.

They just a mysterious group called 'The Order' (working title) they have long curvy daggers for melee, throwing knives for range, and maybe some sort or telekinetic abilites, though I'm not sure about that one.

I'm sure we could work up a background and purpose for them. That'd be a job for our writers.

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Edited by oDDity

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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:lol: Excellent! Yes, I'm a HUGE fan of Dark City myself...as Renz knows from our discussions early on. I think a group like this would be perfect for our Keepers...and I quite like "The Order". Much more powerful sounding than "Keepers", if you ask me. Oooh, we're the keepers...we keep the balance. Yeah yeah, step aside...we keep "ORDER" bitches!!!

 

Just need to stylize them up a bit and they'll be perfect.

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lol, I never posted anything about em cuz I had already spent tons of time raving about my ideas on IRC. :P

 

I'll toss out my original idea for em and see what everyone thinks...I've tweaked it a tiny bit due to some good issues Springheel brought up when we last talked about em.

 

The Order (as they shall henceforth be known) should only SEEM to have a purpose, they're never fully explained during the course of the game. On the occasions when you do see em during the earlier missions they're either standing off to the edge waiting for you to leave or are just making an exit themselves and you just catch their leaving.

 

Anything they do, any clues they happen to leave behind, should be vague and mysterious...just giving you enough insite to make you THINK you might know what's going on only to have it change or be contradicted later on. They're our G-Man...they enforce the idea of mystery and leave alot open for interpretation, they're there to make you even more curious about the world you're playing in.

 

Originally I had them set up as sort of a behind the scenes superpower but Spring had a few issues with that...and after thinking it over for awhile I agree with him. They do have the occasional dabblings in innerfaction affairs, and they have the power and strength to push just about anything in their favor with a bit of time and subterfuge, but they usually stay to themselves for the most part.

 

They will on occasion call upon someone from outside to do a favor for them, it could be anyone...from a lowly kitchen maid to a powerful baron. Most that recieve this call know it's in their best interest to oblige them and do what they want...those that don't disappear mysteriously never to be heard from again. They always work in the shadows and have connections from the black market to the richest nobleman. No one knows exactly who they are or what they're doing, they just know them by reputation.

 

If we do have a mission where you invade one of their outposts (and I think we should), it shouldn't be too grandly decorated...they usually stick to the slums as base their operations, only equipping their surroundings with their odd machinery and magical artifacts they need. Any books you find here will give you some idea of how they work, but it won't tell you why they're doing it or what their goals are beyond some very vague hints. Writings and conversation should also vary, from lucid explainations in one book, to odd rambings and drawings in another. Sometimes their plans will even contradict each other...like their own faction has layers upon layers upon layers of conspiracies existing right under their noses.

 

Generally they should be scary as hell, confusing, and very threatening. Even the lowliest of their order exudes an aura of almost unimaginable knowledge and power.

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dear DARK CITY

embrace my soul..throw me to the endless universe...while i ve been waiting for my train to nowhere...

 

I m telling you ..if you say something opposite to RENZ offer..IM gonna kill you .!!!

 

DARK CITY

and STRANGERS rule...

 

 

BEST IDEA EVER IN THIEF WORLD

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Figures like this can work well in a movie or a linear plot, but I'm not entirely sure how we could use them in our campaign.

 

I should say first, I think we should go ahead and model the suckers, as they are very cool and would be neat addition--lots of FM authors would enjoy using them for keepers, necromancers, or keeper assassins.

 

As far as Ren's description above, however, I am not generally in favour of the "G-Man" story convention. The 'mysterious group behind everything' can very easily be overdone, and it's hard to do in a freestyle game like Thief, where you don't always know what the player will do.

 

The other thing about a super-mysterious group is that if you introduce them at all, they really need to be central to the story. Otherwise they become a 'gun on the wall' that the player winds up waiting to go off.

 

edit: I guess I'd better watch my back now... ;)

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I just saw Tyrot walking off to get an ice pick, I dunno why...

 

Yeah, I can easily see something like this going out of control if you're too sloppy with the implementation...we'll see what Macsen does with em, I'm just offering the general mood and theme here.

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Be careful about making the hats look like a catholic cardinal hat...I don't think that's the flavour we want for them.

 

As far as weapons go...do they need any? Should they be actual advesaries? As soon as you actually face an enemy like this, they lose a great deal of their mysterious aura and become just another AI.

 

I suppose they would need weapons for FM authors to use them, however. I see them using something like a walking stick with a concealed blade or something. They could perhaps have a supernatural attack for a missile weapon. Or maybe the other half of the walking stick can be used as a blowgun to shoot poison darts. Just off the top of my head.

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I didn't post this earlier, but I had been thinking about the telekinetics comment oDDity made.

 

Perhaps they need not be "physical" adversaries at all. Perhaps they are very good at evasion. I thought perhaps the only way to attack them would be hand to hand...if you could catch them that is. Projectile weapons would simply be deflected back at you or out of the way. They wouldn't be able to move living beings with a will of their own...just inanimate objects.

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That could work. I originally thought it'd be interesting if they could pin you against walls and freeze you in place when they spot you, but that might be too annoying. Being able to push chairs and tables out of their way (or push them in your way) might be enough.

 

Oh, plus dagger throwing.

 

And Gold, one complaint. I think it'd be more interesting if their faces wern't covered at all...even though they're supposed to be rather anonymous as a group, I wanna give the individual characters somewhat of a personality...that's hard to do with most of their face hidden.

 

Everything else is good-o. ;)

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Anybody read "Wheel of Time"? There are some characters named Myrdraal which are kind of like these guys. And they have a nice habbiot. They can hide in shadows and use them as a means of transportation. Maybe we can use that for them, because they look somehow like them.

And I like "The Order" as a name idea. :)

Gerhard

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dear RENZ

 

I cant believe we are adding STRANGERS into dark mod..This is a miracle..As we talk on IRC Looking Glass Seriously must have been inspired by this AWESOME MOVIE DARK CITY..

 

And i cant still believe that we are discussing STRANGERS ..THIS IS AWESOME...Think about we were discussing about TREE MONSTERS...Thanks God it was just a bad dream..TREE and MONSTER in same sentence...Must be a sign for Doomsday...

 

THis STRANGER idea the BEST thing Happened in DARK MOD for a long time..

 

I m a happy guy..

 

BEST

 

(I solved the texture issue, I didnt sleep today (it s 11 am) But i solved it..It s little bit long but enormously funny work flow..And results are striking....wait for tonight Mate:))

 

and SPAR "YO MAN"...(i just wanted to write this down)

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Using shadows as a means of transportation could work into an idea I had about a specifc type of Order character we could have lurking about.

 

Like I said before, I want these guys to feel a bit alien in comparison to the rest of the faction...like they only half belong in the society they inhabit. They should definately have some odd characters and NPC's to drive that point home.

 

I was thinking it'd be interesting if we had a single character that was actually 3. Triplets so to speak, but they only have one mind among them. The only way you can tell them apart is by looking at their faces, each one has a roman numeral I, II, or III tattoed on his cheek.

 

They'll have a personality of course, but it's only one among the three of them. This one entity knows what each of his 3 bodies sees and hears at all times...for example you have 2 of his bodies on opposite ends of the hallway, if one hears something he say his usual "what is this?" bark, but if you're in earshot of the other you'll hear him say "II has heard a noise". If you knock one out or start a fight the other 2 will know exactly where you're at and teleport to his side and assist him...it'll make you think twice before you decide to blackjack one of em.

 

When they speak, like in a cutscene for instance, 2 will stand perfectly still with their heads bowed and hands crossed in front of them while the speaker is quite animated. They'll constantly speak after each other, usually picking up the next sentence when the other has finished one...it'll be something like:

 

(scene, 3 order guys all identical in appearence and voice standing around a nobleman in bed)

 

I: I hate to come unannounced as such...

III: But the reasons for my intrusive arrival is quite just, I assure you...

II: A favor was owed my order, and we found that you did not honor our request...

I: This has angered my order...

III: But we are willing to be rather lenient considering the circumstances...

II: Just this once..

 

An odd effect to be sure, and it could make for an interesting character.

 

Tyrot...WOOT!

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That'd be an interesting play on the normal Thief mechanics, I like it. We'll still need to make it so that any KO's against these guys comes with strings attached, though. Like if you knock him out in the light and move his body to the shadows the others will be able to port in...otherwise they'll just run to his location.

 

Do you also wanna make it so that the others will revive one of their knocked out counterparts when they reach them and you're not around?

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I haven't thought much about this, as this just appeared right now. :) But I don't think that waking them up would be a good idea. Then again, there could be a special exception for these guys. What happens to them when one of them dies?

Gerhard

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If one dies he doesn't come back, but we could make the other 2 stronger and quicker because the single mind that's controlling them becomes more focused.

 

In keeping with what Springheel said I wanna make sure these guys are damn hard to take down. ;)

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Yeah. Maybe we could do some special effect on them. When you try to bj them, or use the sword, they become misty and the wepaon passes through them. So there needs to be some special combination. Like luring them in the light, and then shoot a moss arrow on them, so they can't move anymore, and the will be slowly disintegrated by the light. One strategy could then be to turn out the torches, when they are near enough you relight the torches so they are hit by light. Directyl shooting a fire arrow at them wouldn't help because they just will become misty and the arrow passes through. So you can hit them only when they are weakend by light.

 

Something like that. :)

Gerhard

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I dunno... I'm not sold on these guys yet.

 

I didn't like the telepathic nature of the similar guys in T3. They bored the heck out of me; weren't scary when they were trying to be; said the same stuff over and over again; were too loud in my speakers with no way to escape thier loudness except by turning the volume down since they were telepathic. It just didn't fit very well in the Thief universe for me.

 

Having 3 of them being "one" mind or whatever would be annoying, especially if they can teleport around and "save" the other(s). You down one, drag him to the shadows then all the sudden you have to fight two more? We're supposed to be a Thief, not an assassin.

 

Three inter-related figures reminds me too much of three other movies off the top of my head: Minority Report, The Cell and White Noise. Not a bad thing, necessarily, just that it's been used a lot recently.

 

Having them ghostly reminds me of the library ghost in T2 that launched skulls at you. I hated that he could attack you but killing him was either impossible or hard to figure out (can't remember which). What I'm getting at is that I like it when apparition-types can't manipulate anything whatsoever in the physical world. I shouldn't be able to attack them, and I shouldn't have to worry about them being able to attack me. I also hated those two zombies that appeared at the top of some tower when you read a book (Life of the Party level?) which were, I think, impossible to kill. I know the two zombies aren't really the same thing, but I wanted to mention anyways.

Edited by Darkness_Falls
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