Grass edge 4: Vergemaker

[Fidcal]

Another attempt at softening grass edges this time with a high res alpha map similar to supercrumb but just using conventional texture outline of the grass blades. This is further enhanced by underlying a black smut along the edge to give a slight shadow and create a 3D effect. On the right is a normal grass patch with straight edge.

 

[Baddcog]

looks good.

[SiyahParsomen]

this is far better compared to your previous attempts.

 

a tutorial about this will be useful for better visual quality on fan missions.

[Tels]

Another attempt at softening grass edges this time with a high res alpha map similar to supercrumb but just using conventional texture outline of the grass blades. This is further enhanced by underlying a black smut along the edge to give a slight shadow and create a 3D effect. On the right is a normal grass patch with straight edge.

 

That surely looks good, but I think even in this case a "fading texture" with the big stones would be good, because you could gradually make the stones vaish and remove them and end up with the grass that is between the stones. Right now you grass on the left looks different than the grass between the stones, which doesn't help the illusion

[Baddcog]

I don't like grass fading into stones. When does that ever happen? Grass fade to dirt yes, but grass doesn't grow through/ontop of stones.

 

In that case I think it's much better to have grass hanging over the edge of a stone path like this.

[SneaksieDave]

That is sweet. They clearly have a groundskeeper.

[Tels]

I don't like grass fading into stones. When does that ever happen? Grass fade to dirt yes, but grass doesn't grow through/ontop of stones.

 

In that case I think it's much better to have grass hanging over the edge of a stone path like this.

 

Yes, that is true, but I was not talking about "fading" stones or grass,but having stones that simple are absent, so you get a gradual, broken up border.

 

Here is a crude mockup. Some texture artist could do this much prettier than me, also the normal map would need adjusting. (Plus, this specific ground texture uses only 512 pixel, which is way to little for something that covers so much ground (no pun intended e.g. it will look blurry in game). Maybe Serpentine can do some magic here?

 

 

Edit: In fact, I think it might be even better if we had a texture that *only* contains the stones in this case, with transparency in between. So you could lay it over grass, dirt, whatever, and if you use a patch and restrict that patch carefully, you can draw paths and whatnot by shaping the patch. Hm. Must gonnna try...*fidcal infected me

[Bikerdude]

Fids latest attempt is just sex!, but Tels idea is simplicity itself and very efficient on the resource, cpu/gpu front..

[Serpentine]

Maybe Serpentine can do some magic here?

Grass takes quite a bit of time to get right, as such I've got 3-4 grass textures that I tinker with from time to time but I'm still not satisfied with them. I do have some new ideas tho. Mmmm

 

Edit: In fact, I think it might be even better if we had a texture that *only* contains the stones in this case, with transparency in between.

Wouldn't be hard to alpha out some of the stone path texture gaps, and storing it in the diffuse alpha chan means we just have to add a new def to use it. Don't know why I didn't think of this before, such a simple yet nice solution

[Tels]

Fids latest attempt is just sex!

 

Yeah, of course I didn't want to put down his idea and effort - it can be used to quite some effect!

[Fidcal]

There are definitely other methods that look better but I am trying to find a general method that will anywhere with no special alignment or custom texture. That path might be any stone or dirt and the grass any grass. All that is needed is the alpha map and a material def for each grass/dirt type. The example is just one edge but I hope to make it fade in the other direction to form a narrow strip which can be overlaid on any join. Probably need a curved version too but I might cram that on the same tile.

 

I like that idea of the stones alpha overlaying on any grass. It might not blend well though but I'd like to see it all the same. I think I could directly substitute that in my FM.

[Tels]

Here is a test. I am not good at this, so I brushed out only a part of the texture and put in a new material to show it:

 

The base texture is still a bit too blurry and the now hard edges of the stones aren't what I like, but it might work in some circumstances.

 

[Bikerdude]

@Tels:

What if that particular stone texture or for that matter any stone texture that has grass/dirt/etc inbtween the stones, has the "in-between2 textures chenged for a transparent one. so a mapper can then over lay it anywhere..!!! And at the same time remove the 'half-cut" stones from the edge of the texture to give a natural edge etc....or is that what your aiming for Tels..?

 

@Fids:

I love this idea, we could even use to give the edges of walls a natural look..

[demagogue]

That's what I was about to say (re Tels' idea). Rather than a tiling pattern, just remove the half cut stones from the texture and leave a big intentional gap in the middle of the texture. (edit: I mean still tiling in the Y-axis, but not on the X-axis). Then a person might scale the texture to make the path bigger or smaller (or there could be different path sizes with different decals).

 

It might also look good, once you're on that path so to speak, if the stones in the center of the path were jutted against one other, and only towards the edges of the path do the stones start to separate, until you get to the outer edge where there is a line of ending stones before the big gap in the texture.

[Serpentine]

That's what I was about to say (re Tels' idea). Rather than a tiling pattern, just remove the half cut stones from the texture and leave a big intentional gap in the middle of the texture. (edit: I mean still tiling in the Y-axis, but not on the X-axis). Then a person might scale the texture to make the path bigger or smaller (or there could be different path sizes with different decals).

Yeah I was thinking the same, I mocked up a few examples now to test if I could get a good workflow for making changes like this. the y-axis removal works quite well and while it wont work for all uses I think it's most likely the best option (since I only really want to use the diffuse alpha, separate maps are quite wasteful.)

 

Converting normal->height then leveling and masking and finally posterizing works quite well on most of the textures (the ones with well made normal maps anyway) since we don't exactly have any form of soft alpha blending.

[Fidcal]

I'm wondering how it would look with a half dark outline round and overlapping each stone edge put in a separate map and blend filtered in. Would that help soften the edges? Well it would if it went to total black but that would be too extreme. But maybe a half tone would soften a little.

[Fidcal]

I've improved on this somewhat. I decided to try the opposite side of the strip which, if this is to work, has to blend perfectly with 'real' grass. I extended the fuzzyness and it works perfectly to blend with other grass (even if that grass is rotated differently so long as it is approx(?) same scale.) it also is an alternative over stone. Even without the smut shadow it looks usable. I then tried it on a 'worst case' over white plain stone slabs. Now you can see the supercrumb fuzziness close up and it is lost further away (this is a 4096 x 4096 alpha map) but I think acceptable for many surfaces.

 

I need to straighten the edge somewhat for two reasons. It tends to look artificial especiall when tiling. The other thing is if the under shadow is used it shows more prominently in the distance where the supercrumb is lost so does not hide it.

 

This alpha map should work with any existing grass like texture image - it only needs a new shader.

 

[Tels]

Yeah I was thinking the same, I mocked up a few examples now to test if I could get a good workflow for making changes like this. the y-axis removal works quite well and while it wont work for all uses I think it's most likely the best option (since I only really want to use the diffuse alpha, separate maps are quite wasteful.)

 

Converting normal->height then leveling and masking and finally posterizing works quite well on most of the textures (the ones with well made normal maps anyway) since we don't exactly have any form of soft alpha blending.

 

Sorry, I can't follow you

 

I just throw up a quick mockup to show the idea, I think you should continue with that as you clearly know more than I and have more skill, too

[Tels]

This alpha map should work with any existing grass like texture image - it only needs a new shader.

 

Ui, clever! In the first shot, does it blent betwene two grass textures on the left? If so, thats brilliant, because hardly to see, just like it should be!

[Fidcal]

Yes - that's a major requirement because without that you would have to align it perfectly to any normal grass tile and it would be impossible in some situations such as a rectangular lawn with edges all round but not an exact number of tiles fit. With this you don't need to worry about alignment at all, just stick it over any edge between grass and stone/dirt.

 

Next I need to consider a curve tile. Can't cover every curve of course so the mapper might have to compromise with a serious of patches for unusual contours. Although it might be possible to curve the patch to do it mmm... I'm not sure. I must try that next because then no curve tile needed.

[Bikerdude]

you know what we need in DR, a blur/smudge tool like you get in a paint program. And where we could change the size of the tip of the smudge tool etc...

 

[Fidcal]

Yes, that would be the dream in a future game engine and editor I guess. A smudge tool with variable opacity you just drag over any edge to smear it. Better yet, an auto-smear that knows which textures need smudging and you need only adjust one or two here and there.

 

Dream on...

[Fidcal]

A couple more shots to prove it works on curved edges using the straight alpha. Just use fit so it aligns to the edge then reduce the longwise scale to approximate the rest of the grass. No models, no vertex blending, no custom textures. Just a single alpha map. Not so great in the distance but good close up. The rocks and the grass on the right are untreated crisp edges.

 

@Biker: I'll now try to apply this to your oldtown yard if you don't mind and see how it looks vertically against walls.

 

[Bikerdude]

sure thing Fids, go right ahead etc..

 

btw those screenshots or lovely.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Bikerdude

[Tels]

Fidcal, this looks great! One thing you might want to try is to add grime-decals, that are not in sync with the edge (e.g. prime to each other, if your edge is 5 units long, make the grime decal 11 long, so they do not sync in their lengths). Adding a small variny darkening can further break up the boring repetitions of the two textures.

 

Btw, after reading about ETQW and megatexture

 

http://wiki.splashdamage.com/index.php/A_Simple_First_Megatexture

 

I am more and more for a try to see if we could just put TDM inside the ETQW SDK. Lots of work, but it would f.i. solve this whole textureblending issue in one go... (Thanx for jcdenton for the idea btw