more basic brush questions, need clarification

[ithel]

Hi, I'm beginning to get somewhere in my understanding of DR and TDM. I've observed a few things in the learning process and want to make sure I understand the correct cause.

 

I made a moat with shallow water at the bottom. Worked fine in TDM. I decided to make a bridge over this moat, and the first step was a large brush that filled the moat top to bottom partway along the length of the ravine forming the moat. Before I did any further work on the bridge, I dmap'd and went back in TDM to check on something else. When I came back to DR, I discovered that brush had somehow erased the part of the water brush which had lain inside it...and also erased the wall brushes it had crossed, which in this case opened a leak into the void. My question, then, is this:

 

1. Was this caused merely by crossing one brush over another? Or crossing centerlines? Or...

2. Does this only happen if one adjusts a dmap'd brush that crosses over another? Or...

3. Does this sort of thing only happen in relation to waterbrushes and/or void-sealing brushes? Or...

4. Is this because I still had the map open in TDM when I returned to DR to continue editing it? Or...

5. Was this just a fluke?

 

I remember that in Dromed, it was important to keep brush creation order in mind. Is that the case in TDM as well? eg. should I put waterbrushes in only when I am finished with the solids of that area?

 

Thanks again. I hope my questions aren't too annoying. They arise out of an active attempt to learn the editor. There is just so much to grasp at once.

 

As a side note, my daughter's rabbit died today. She's had it since she was four, so now I guess this mission idea I had in mind has received an extra impetus, albeit a sad one, heh. We're writing the story together in detail as I begin to sketch out the mission shape.

[grayman]

Your TDM session would not change what DR is working with when you return to DR.

 

The only thing I can think of is that you must have pressed the "CSG Subtract" button (left side of DR screen) while the bridge brush was selected. This would have removed the sections of all intersecting brushes that were inside the bridge brush.

 

I can't think of any other way to reach the result you saw.

[stumpy]

darkradiant doesn't work in the order of brush creation, all world brushes get saved as entity zero, all other brushes, eg func_statics, func_waters, items, get saved as different entities with their own numbers.

[PPoe]

And overlapping brushes shouldnt be a problem. (Just take care not to let their surfaces ocupied the same place, you will get the zfighting showed in the game).

 

CSG is the only thing possible, I agree.

 

 

[Serpentine]

Just a note:

 

Make sure you're using a grid size in DR which is above 1.0 - i.e avoid using 0.125 and such - they will make you have leaks where there should not be.

 

When you dmap, your brushes are merged, split and generally re-worked into a more optimal representation. This process however has a certain level of inaccuracy at small scales and within certain situations. Sometimes you can end up with black surfaces, other times you can end up with strange leaks or crashes. This is most likely not what you're running into at the moment, but some advice never the less

[grayman]

Make sure you're using a grid size in DR which is above 1.0 - i.e avoid using 0.125 and such - they will make you have leaks where there should not be.

 

Clarification: They might make you have leaks, not will. It's easier for the floating-point problem to bite you at grid sizes less than 1, but it's not definite.

[ithel]

Again I thank you for the generosity represented by your replies. While I don't recall hitting that CSG button, I was reading that part of the A-Z tutorial around the time I was working on that bridge, so I must have clicked it. I suppose that is what the tutorial was getting at, though, that the CSG was one means of....exploiting the engine?...to create brush shapes not otherwise possible with a single brush? Because it seems I could make a square brush, then put a sphere brush sticking out one side of it, hit CSG, dmap, delete the sphere, and leave a square brush with a sphere-shaped hole in it.

 

I do appreciate the clarification of what happens when one dmaps, as I was beginning to suspect some kind of merging could be happening there. I also appreciate the advice on grid size. I have been very careful with using the grid. I did go down to Grid2 for some detail work, but mostly I have kept it at the default of Grid8.

 

I'm starting to develop a good work-flow with DR. While I have a paper sketch of the mission layout, in the past I tended to work one section at a time. I'm close to completing the brushwork for the first section, so I'll be getting some good practical understanding of visiports tonight or tomorrow, I think.

[Fidcal]

This is a known problem with a water entity. I can't recall offhand if it is caused by the water entity origin being inside a solid (of the bridge in this case) or just being divided.

 

If the water entity origin is inside the bridge then first try dragging the water entity origin to one side of the bridge. You can do this by pressing V to get into vertex mode then drag the entity origin to where you want.

 

However, I'm not sure the above helps so if not then try cloning (Space key by default I think) the water entity into two separate entities and reduce the size of each so you have one water entity either side of the bridge. Again, remember you probably need to use vertex mode to drag the origins roughly into the middle of each entity away from the bridge.

[Baddcog]

Water brushes need to be sealed from all sides afaik, been awhile but I don't think you can have a corner sticking into the void,

you shouldn't have it overlapping world spawn either.

 

If you have complex water ways just surround with caulk, then have all the brushes that clip into it be func_stat or patches.

[grayman]

you shouldn't have it overlapping world spawn either.

 

If you have complex water ways just surround with caulk, then have all the brushes that clip into it be func_stat or patches.

 

Is this really a problem?

 

I have water brushes that run through world brushes and have no problems (that I know of). For example, a sewer channel filled with water takes a right turn and continues going. Rather than have a water brush in each channel and have to deal with the seam at the intersection, I just use one water brush to cover both channels, which causes it to share space with the channel's side world brushes.

 

What types of problems have you seen with this? I have a dozen or so of these situations, and would like to know what type of problem to expect.

 

Thanks.

[Baddcog]

Well, it's been quite awhile, but I had issues with surface distortions. Invisible brushes thing. Parts of the water disappearing.

 

Once i cut the water up into several pieces to fit the U moat it was fine.

 

I also seem to remember getting 'invisible walls' in the water that made swimming through it impossible. That actually might have been the biggest issue. And if you just have it in walkable, not swimmable water you wouldn't have seen that.