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mathi_r

Just some Ideas

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wait, wait, wait scroll?? You can scroll doors?

 

No, not yet. But there was talk implementing it and someone asked "why?". That's why I explained that it is something worthwhile to have. We just miss someone who implements it.

 

Shouldn't be that hard to implement either. But it would break the highlight->frob connection. I gather you just start scrolling while it's highlighted... Maybe that wouldn't be confusing though. Hmm, you might have that for levers and wheels too.

 

Scrolling sounds a little slow & tedious to open a door the whole way though, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, lol... unless it whips it open, then it's hard to control. Not as good as just "grabbing" the door and mouse-opening or closing it like Amnesia, if you're brainstorming down that road at all, but maybe a different key grabs it separate from frobs it.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Shouldn't be that hard to implement either. But it would break the highlight->frob connection. I gather you just start scrolling while it's highlighted... Maybe that wouldn't be confusing though. Hmm, you might have that for levers and wheels too.

 

Scrolling sounds a little slow & tedious to open a door the whole way though, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, lol... unless it whips it open, then it's hard to control. Not as good as just "grabbing" the door and mouse-opening or closing it like Amnesia, if you're brainstorming down that road at all, but maybe a different key grabs it separate from frobs it.

 

Well, there is the middle mouse button (the wheel) and if you use "left click" for frob", and "middle mouse button pressed and scrolled" for scroll, that would work. Just like the grabber, where you also have to keep the middle mouse button pressed. Using the same key as for the grabber makes sense, basically you are "grabbing the door" and the movement is limited (unlike when you have something in your grabber where you have more roation/movement options).

 

So basically, it would allow you to "grab" doors, levers and drawers. If nec. we could even implement "swinging it open" by binding the movement to your mouse look direction. Press middle button, move mouse direction towards opening the drawer/door and it follows.

 

Using "left and right button at the same time" can then be implemented for the poor saps who don't have a middle button. Or they assign "right shift" or whatever as "manipulate modifier key". They do have the problem with the grabber already, so they won't lose anything.


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I see. My mouse doesn't have middle-mouse button so I've been using "z" for the grabber feature and forgot it was still attached to the MMB for most people. Yeah, that'd be a natural extension of the object grabber. I'd be interested to see it in action.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Well, in Pernumbra and Amnesia you are left in a locked position while you control in real time the opening of doors and drawers. In that game, that is probably supposed to make you feel slightly more scared each time, as you are forced to look for supplies but that leaves you vulnerable for a second or two (a lot of times you are looking for things with your back turned to the entrance of the room, for example, so your exposed). It does feel a bit awkward, even though its a more realistic system.

 

Ive never had a problem with the current system, just tap twice and the door stops leaving a small gap to see through if you really need it, and Im often opening a bunch of cabinets at once while I wait for each to finish the animation; it might be interesting though, I dont know, I would however miss the ability of opening a door or groundlevel window "with one arm", taking a look up and down the street while it opens.

Edited by RPGista

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Well, in Pernumbra and Amnesia you are left in a locked position while you control in real time the opening of doors and drawers. In that game, that is probably supposed to make you feel slightly more scared each time, as you are forced to look for supplies but that leaves you vulnerable for a second or two (a lot of times you are looking for things with your back turned to the entrance of the room, for example, so your exposed). It does feel a bit awkward, even though its a more realistic system.

 

Ive never had a problem with the current system, just tap twice and the door stops leaving a small gap to see through if you really need it, and Im often opening a bunch of cabinets at once while I wait for each to finish the animation; it might be interesting though, I dont know, I would however miss the ability of opening a door or groundlevel window "with one arm", taking a look up and down the street while it opens.

 

Nobody said we will replace the existing system, the new one would supplement it. As for the "lock position", I am not sure if'd do this, or leave you to "walk around the door while swinging it open".


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Yeah keep normal frobbing & make it like the grabber system. It's freely manipulable as long as MMB is pressed; you're just reducing the axises of freedom. Also good for levers and drawers and wheels. And if someone's coming or you want to look around, you just lift MMB for a second, turn and look.

 

Edit: It's no good working like a literal hand icon, though. I think it's better just simply: If you swing the mouse right, the door swings right in tandem (CCW if rotating towards you, CW if away), mouse left swings the door left (vice versa). I.e., you're always moving the mouse towards the hinges-side to open, and towards the knob-side to close -- whether it's rotating either way. But it's not like you have to have it perfectly centered or move the mouse perfectly parallel to the door, as long as it's highlighted.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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The fact that Fritctional's grab and drag interaction is universally applied consistently to everything is, I think, part of why it works so damn well in their games.

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In the preliminary system (which I assume is still in the code base), I set it up so that you hold down frob on a door and then move the mouse up to open/close the door away from you, and down to open/close the door towards you. This necessarily locks out up/down mouse movement, but you can still walk around with the movement keys. I guess MMB migh work too, but to me "hold frob" felt intuitive, because we hit frob to open/close a door, we are using frob to represent "grab the door and fling it open," whereas hold frob represents "grab the door and don't let go, because we want to slowly open or close it."

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I just tried the "hold down frob on a door and then move the mouse" and couldn't get it to work. When I frob a door, it simply opens, even if I hold down the use key. I tried this with both "Use-by-frobbing" enabled and disabled.

 

How do you "hold frob" on a door (assuming it's still in the code)?

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that sounds very good and promising


shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif

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Hello,

taking this topic I'll sugest a mission style. So far what I have played in TDM includes: Builder religion, zombies, nobles, some necromancer references, abandoned buildings. How about this:

- imagine our thief going to a abandoned Asylum , with a particular aspect that is hunted having a myth. I think this kind could be an interesting idea even in the gameplay: Ghosts imune to blackjacks, there will be some loot, a lot of secret passes, the story behind the building, but the most important thing atmosphere: crazy people, doctores, nurses voices; ghosts walking in the building but hostile.

What do you think?

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It is an interesting possibility, and so far unexplored - so why not? There have already been ghosts in the excellent A Night to Remember, which should help you a bit with the technical implementation. The rest should mostly be possible with standard editor tricks.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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There have been a few of those kinds of missions in Thief (the T2X hospital mission maybe, TDS The Cradle, a few others?), but yeah it's one of the least used kinds of settings, and not a single one in TDM AFAIK, so it's a great idea to go for. I'd be happy to see it.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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2. When walking on robes in the air, it feels like going on hard ground. Maybe some tottering would be nice, when walking on such.

 

Havok can be used for free in non-profit games, not sure how hard it would be to integrate it with the D3 engine, but, it allows for a lot more advanced physics. (ie, it can do that.)

 

This would also make the physics in general work better, and probably perform better. (Not to mention, it can do cloth simulation, fluid simulations, breakables, etc,.)

 

3. There should be a possibilty to open a door just a bit and have a little look inside instead of push the door to open. Also moving doors should be more recognized by AIs, in a radius of some meters.

 

The game "Amnesia" allows you to open the door via physics, you just click the door to grab it, then you can move the mouse forward\backward to open\close it, I like this behavior, it allows you to have very precise control over how the door opens. (Edit: Someone already mentioned this, I see, beat to the punch..)

Edited by CodeMonkey

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