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Interesting use of weapons & tools / Enhancements ideas


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Hey,

 

I didn't find any specific topic about this, so I hope this will be useful.

 

What I want to discuss here:

 

- tips about non trivial use of weapons & tools only that make it fun

- ideas for changes, extra uses to add

 

[EDIT]

 

What shoudn't be discussed here:

 

- general tips (moves, doors, ...): there is already a topic about player tips, created a while ago by Springheel: here.

 

[/EDIT]

 

Purposes:

 

- give gameplay ideas for players and mappers with the current mechanics

- give ideas for the next versions of TDM

 

I don't really care about graphics or realism, just gameplay.

 

If you have a brilliant idea, I think it's better to use it in a FM, give some hints and let people find out by themselves than posting it here right away. That's why I'll use general examples ;) (not that I have brilliant ideas...)

 

For instance:

 

Broadheads

 

trivial: can hurt people

not trivial: can make noise and distract people (don't even argue about stealth score/ghostling)

smart: allows you to knock items or break glass from a distance

ideas: none, you?

 

Fire

 

trivial: explodes dealing massive damage and noise

situational: can light stuff (never found it useful so far, you?)

not trivial: can make alot of noise and distract people

smart: got no clue. Anyone?

ideas: make some materials ignite, like straw (not wood!), to get guards busy (maybe complicated for something redundant with with noise arrows); make some doors able to take damage like in T2

 

Flash

 

trivial: drop it and troll around

situational: throw it instead and then move past (typically you'd need to step in line of sight to drop it)

...

 

That's it. (For now. I flooded the forum too much lately). Your turn!

Edited by Bastoc

Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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Moss arrows: I used them once to put out an especially troublesome candle when I was out of water arrows--I couldn't use a broadhead because there were AI in the vicinity, but the moss arrow not only knocked the candle over but cushioned the noise of it falling.

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I've been known to use "myself" as a tool. AI not giving up observing a location as quickly as you'd like? Stand up, jump up and down to get them to come investigate while you duck and sneak off right through the brightly lit previously impassable area around the bend, or in another room.

"The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out."

- Baron Thomas Babington Macauley

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Doors: You can open and use them to mantle up. Always good for a secret hiding place... =)

 

Spyglass: Always use it to check an AI's belt. You can bind "use spyglass" to key in order to instantly zoom in.

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Cups, candles, or other junk that is taller than it is wide: I sometimes place these in the middle of certain hallways or rooms I know I'll be coming back to to so I don't get caught off-guard by AI on long or semi-random patrols. If I come back and they're knocked over then I know somebody somewhere passes through that space.

 

Torches, candles, or other re-lightable light sources: On missions that have AI that can re-light light sources, I'll occasionally put out certain light source even if I won't be going near it so that a nearby guard will re-light it and slow down their patrol. This can help with guards that I'm having trouble timing to sneak past or with situations where I think a noise-based distraction would be too risky.

 

Mines: On rare occasions I might use these as distractions, like an improvised noisemaker of sorts. Explosions tend to be hard to ignore. XD

 

Doors: This is very situational and risky, but can be useful if I'm really pressed for time and am willing to risk it for some reason. AI do turn their heads towards visible doors if they open nearby, so you can open a door near them to distract them briefly so you can pass through a lit area. The window for this is very small though and it usually requires a relatively quiet surface so you can move quickly.

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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Doors (once again): Close them behind you, but leave them open just a very little bit so that vision is completely blocked, but sound is not. This way a guard cannot surprise you, because you hear him/her approach.

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Moss arrows: I used them once to put out an especially troublesome candle when I was out of water arrows--I couldn't use a broadhead because there were AI in the vicinity, but the moss arrow not only knocked the candle over but cushioned the noise of it falling.

 

I use this one sometimes, it's great ;) And you can also break glass silently. Actually, moss arrow is one of my favourite, it allows you to do large silent jumps, risky blackjacking, etc. But it's too expensive and I can't use it as much as I'd like. Especially, you often need at least 2 for a stunt around guards (one under your feet, one on the target platform), so it's 30 gold used at once (6 water arrows!). Also, I think the moss spots graphic is confusing, it would be better to have only one homogeous surface.

Ideas: reduce cost from 15 to 10, it's not worth 3 water arrows IMO (no matter what your supplier says :P); keep the particle effect, but make it one big patch of moss

 

 

NB: it's nice to have various tips, but this topic was intended for weapons & tools because I found another topic about general player tips, created a while ago by Springheel: here. Forgot to tell you, my bad. I'll edit the first post.

Edited by Bastoc

Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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[Off-topic]

 

Isn't a door a tool for opening and closing connections between rooms? ;-P j/k

 

Sure, as much as we are tools as RJFerret put it :P

Since I love doors as much as you do (no, not THAT much, c'mon!), here's my tip: say there is a light coming from a shallow angle, you can open the door just so that it shades the largest area.

 

[/Off-topic]

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Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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An idea I had a while ago is that it would maybe be a nice effect if you could use water arrows to temporarely disable electric lights, like a shortcut. They would still be harder then torches as the effect wouldn't last forever.

 

I find fire arrows pretty useless, too except for undead missions maybe. I guess this is what they are designed for, or as a cheap but loud alternative for gas arrows.

 

However, if a mapper would create a mission that's taking place in a factory or some other sort of industrial setting, he could add oil puddles that, if hit by a fire arrow, starts burning and prevent ai from chasing you by forcing them on an alternative route.

 

IIRC in T3 you could temporarely stun enemies by shooting a moss arrow at them.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Come to think of it, moss arrows feel weird enough to justify some alternative uses. For some reason I feel like moss arrows could have more to them because they seem so delightfully strange for something that just quiets footsteps.

 

Maybe electrical lights can be temporarily blocked by moss. Electric lights are not supposed to be de-activated much if at all, but you could make it a rather short time window for balance and justify it by saying the heat from the light dries out the moss quickly and causes it to die faster.

 

Maybe you could burn moss to generate a lot of smoke. Perhaps if you shoot moss at a torch it'll burn and I would think moss would give off smoke like crazy when burned. (come to think of it is there smoke in TDM?)

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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An idea I had a while ago is that it would maybe be a nice effect if you could use water arrows to temporarely disable electric lights, like a shortcut. They would still be harder then torches as the effect wouldn't last forever.

 

Maybe electrical lights can be temporarily blocked by moss. Electric lights are not supposed to be de-activated much if at all, but you could make it a rather short time window for balance and justify it by saying the heat from the light dries out the moss quickly and causes it to die faster.

 

I don't think you should be able to disable electrical lights with a cheap arrow, because if the mapper wanted that, they'd have used an extinguishable light instead. The utility of electrical lights is precisely that they cannot be disabled, for level design purposes.

 

Maybe you could burn moss to generate a lot of smoke. Perhaps if you shoot moss at a torch it'll burn and I would think moss would give off smoke like crazy when burned. (come to think of it is there smoke in TDM?)

 

Why not, probably you can make smoke with a tweaked light fog texture (not sure if it affects the light gem though, negative lights?). It would be a good way to get rid of it when AI are upgraded to be able to notice moss blobs. As for the utility of the smoke, I'm not sure. Reminds me of the Dark Bomb topic I read, which came to talk about smoke bombs. IIRC, some people thought smoke was a good idea, since it's not exactly redundant with flash bomb. Anyway, lighting the moss would be awkward, if you need either fire arows or using a candle.

Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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I don't think you should be able to disable electrical lights with a cheap arrow, because if the mapper wanted that, they'd have used an extinguishable light instead. The utility of electrical lights is precisely that they cannot be disabled, for level design purposes.

...temporarily...

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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...temporarily...

 

Yes, right, I overlooked you meant it only for electrical lights. As long as there are light types that can never be disabled left (say gas lights f.i.), I would like it then. I just meant it's good as it is that some lights force the player to find a smart way to get round it (find a switch, distract the guard, find another path,...).

Jared, is that you ?

Must be rats...

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Cups, candles, or other junk that is taller than it is wide: I sometimes place these in the middle of certain hallways or rooms I know I'll be coming back to to so I don't get caught off-guard by AI on long or semi-random patrols. If I come back and they're knocked over then I know somebody somewhere passes through that space.

 

That's a very creative way to tell that someone has been patrolling the area!

 

On the flipside, I find it a bit unrealistic that the object being moved wouldn't alert the guard's suspicion of 'why is this cup in the middle of the carpet where I'm walking but wasn't there a moment ago?"

 

I'm aware that guard can be put on alert if certain objects are moved, stolen, torches out.

 

Perhaps it's not too far out of the equation that if it's near a window or what not, then it can become believable that something could've fallen off a table and landed on the floor. But then again, would it land standing up? Even if it was laying on its side, a guard patrolling will still kick the item in question to create a sound.

 

Would that sound accidentally trigger a guard into an alert state if these objects were set to trigger guards into alert states? Even though the incident occurred by the NPC and not the player?

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...temporarily...

 

Agreed on both posts about this.

 

THIEF did a great job with levers that controlled certain electrical lamps, and leaving others on for the player to navigate a stealth approach than being able to use a tool to remove the light source.

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That's a very creative way to tell that someone has been patrolling the area!

 

On the flipside, I find it a bit unrealistic that the object being moved wouldn't alert the guard's suspicion of 'why is this cup in the middle of the carpet where I'm walking but wasn't there a moment ago?"

 

I don't think a random cup or candle sitting somewhere would be reason for alarm.

 

If it was a jewel or something of relative importance or value that is expected to stay in place, then yes I would expect suspicion.

 

Cups, candles, and other such items are common items that just about anyone around is allowed to touch. As far as I know there aren't likely to be any explicit household rules regarding how they can be used other than the usual idea of courtesy. Because of that I think it would be unlikely for such items to raise suspicion, at least suspicion "there's a thief about" variety.

 

In-universe, maybe the next morning the staff and/or guards get a stern yelling at about not leaving stuff lying around in the hallway, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.

Edited by Professor Paul1290
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