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MirceaKitsune

Idea [mod]: Damage to individual body parts

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This is a pretty big and complicated feature, and I realize it will likely not happen in reality... at most it would be a mod. I was still wondering how people feel about it though, and if they think it would be fitting for TDM and its gameplay. The first DeusEx game had a damage system exactly like this, and I remember it was one of the things I used to love about it.

 

The idea is to allow each section of the body to take an independent amount of damage, which has various effects on the player. The typical sections are: Torso, head, arms, legs. When your torso is damaged, there's usually no effect other than that you die. When your head is damaged, vision becomes blurry and dark, and hearing might be impaired too. When arms are damaged, you are less efficient at using tools and weapons, and will ultimately drop what you are holding in your hands. When your legs are damaged, you start by no longer being able to sprint, and end by being forced into crouch mode.

 

Why would something like this be done? Mostly for realism, and to have extra mechanics that better simulate what can happen to the body in battle. Gameplay wise, it would certainly add an unwanted layer of extra difficulty, but also some strategy: Imagine you have only one arrow and want to shoot it at a guard... you might want to choose whether you wish to hit the head and kill them, just the arms so they can't use their sword to attack you, or their legs so they can't chase after you. Oppositely, if you get a body part damage and an ability impaired, you'll have to make do with that limitation and look for alternatives... for example you can't run so you must be much more careful while hiding.

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Somewhat off-topic, but for clarification: I do not know whether this idea has been discussed here in the past by other users! I did a quick search on the forum before making this thread, but didn't find anything related. It was brought to my attention that some of my ideas were put up before and I'm simply reviving old debates, but that's not something I'm doing intentionally. These are ideas I come up with while playing, often being inspired by other games that have similar features. I find them intriguing to discuss and consider, hence why I make a series of posts like this every once in a while.

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You don't have to find an excuse for posting a new idea, because new ideas are always a thing to look at. :) Although you shouldn't be angry if your new ideas don't find a place in the next TDM release, because the developers are too busy with bug fixes and implementing features that came before your time ;) New ideas are always nice to have, but it would be even better if you could try to implement your own ideas by yourself! At least in a test map. That's always a good thing to show the devs how your idea works ingame and then it might be implemented in the core mod.

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"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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You don't have to find an excuse for posting a new idea, because new ideas are always a thing to look at. :) Although you shouldn't be angry if your new ideas don't find a place in the next TDM release, because the developers are too busy with bug fixes and implementing features that came before your time ;) New ideas are always nice to have, but it would be even better if you could try to implement your own ideas by yourself! At least in a test map. That's always a good thing to show the devs how your idea works ingame and then it might be implemented in the core mod.

 

The issue was starting new threads before I found old ones, where ideas I thought I was the first to think of had been debated long ago :)

 

And yes, I plan to do a few changes myself and test them on a simple map. Currently some ideas are held back by DarkRadiant failing hard on my machine and making it nearly impossible to map. Others, including mod ideas I have in other games or engines, by stress related to real life being real life. I often suggest ideas before I get around to them myself, in hopes that someone else might before me and they happen faster.

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I quite like the idea of locational damage for enemy ai. I like the depth that targeting different areas of the body would bring, like you pointed out, hurting an arm and making the guard drop his weapon, or slowing him down by firing at his leg and making him limp. I like those non lethal possibilities. Theres no downside to it that I can see, other than the main issue of the need for several new animations, which is a big bummer. But who knows, maybe I can learn to animate sometime and we can talk about implementing something like this in the future.

 

The locational damage applied to the player character I think would be a lot more controversial. Usually you wouldnt want your players abilities degrading, because is a fast action situation, player skill and how well he controls the characters movement should be the deciding factor for succeeding, not randomness or in this case, added difficulties that make the character unplayable. Most degrading mechanics work better in rpg games, because you are stuck with character for months (in game time) and how you lead his life matters. But in a short mission, that system would probably be a bit much, imo.

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I am sorry if I sound cranky, but I do not see it much helpful to serial posting wall of text threads requesting new features and expecting others to implement them.

 

It looks like you want to help TDM. If so, why not do something concrete instead of posting random ideas. Make a FM for the community to enjoy. Choose one of your favourite idea, learn how to implement it and then implement it. Those are things that really help.

 

It is okay to occasionally present new, well though ideas and improvements, but after seeing several threads with wall of texts with features that have mostly been discussed, it just gets old and wastes other people's time.

 

I apologize again for being blunt. But if you really want to help, please do something concrete.

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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@Sotha: MK did explain he can't use DR right now, and he had a thread about that. Suggestions are always good imo. Some people argue at huge length about them, which isn't helpful, but MK isn't one of those people.

 

The game already has what it needs to make this happen. When an AI or player gets hit, we know which body part got hit, but we don't use that information except to place the bloodstains correctly.

 

I don't see how it'd work in a stealth game though. Making it happen to the player would result in a reload, because the player would no longer be able to use their preferred play style. Making it happen to an AI would only be useful if you want to run around in front of that AI without getting hit, which is something that most players want to avoid. If you stay out of sight, it doesn't matter whether the AI is wounded or not.

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@Sotha: The fact that I post about an idea doesn't mean I expect someone to magically implement it tomorrow, sorry if I don't clarify that enough. Some ideas are features that I don't know how to implement, so I post them in *hopes* that maybe someone else might... others are things that I could give a try, but I still need to get introduced to idTech 4 scripting and DarkRadiant not working for me is part of what's holding that back... together with plans I have for other FOSS game engines. So don't take these threads badly please... after all discussion on any interesting topic is fun :)

 

@SteveL: Detecting which body part got shot would be an essential first requirement, for both player and AI. Then we'd need to create health values for each limb, and for the player have a new health HUD. From there it should be easy to implement the impairments, both player and AI ones. I wonder if a script in a mod can easily hijack the original AI and player functions to insert code that does this.

 

@RPGista: New animations would be ideal, but this could make do without them for starters. The only thing the AI needs to have is a crouch animation, but since the player has one that's hopefully the case.

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I'd caution against stating how easy something "should be". :)

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The thing is that degrading the players physical stats would possibly turn some missions unplayable, since some dont offer enough healing potions which are the only way of recovering health. So in my map theres only one or two hidden away at the end section of the map, if you get hurt early, you would be stuck in crouch mode or limping around or dizzy for the majority of it and wouldnt be able to cross a crucial plataforming section. This is just an example. Stuff like this works in an open world type of game like deusex or stalker, because you get hurt and you find or buy health packs and then you come back and try your luck again. In a single mission scenario, its a lot harder to see the value. It would mostly mean people would not be able to afford ever being hit, because only a 100% player character is trully able to cross the map for sure.

 

You could think of temporary effects, like you see in CoD. The same effects you mentioned, but they go away after a while. Those could possibly work. You get hurt and you slow down and feel dizzy for a few seconds.

 

That could result in harder melee fights. And for fairness, would have to aply to ai as well.

 

Also, might not be very useful because unlike CoD, tdm thief isnt absorbing bullets every few meters, so the pain effect might not have an imapct at all for most players, specially because many still see getting

discovered and having to fight or getting hurt (by an alerted enemy) as instant fail and reload, like Steve says.

 

I wouldnt mind seeing an experiment on these. Sound like they could add a bit of (harmless) depth. But you would have to test it a lot to see what would be the gameplay gain.

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