New maps for wesp5's Unofficial Patch

[wesp5]

15 hours ago, chakkman said:

Apart from the geography and climate, shouldn't the ingame characters speak... like... French then?  Or have French names. Or anything typically French to them. They don't seem like Frenchies to me.

Not only that, the architecture is wrong for the area as well. Just look at buildings in southern France! Unless this alternate world has a whole different climate, in which case the area would look different too of course...

P.S.: There is a saying here in Germany that goes "Was nicht passend ist, wird passend gemacht." or "What does not fit is made to fit." in English. Therefore I will replace the France maps with England maps in the patch.

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[Wellingtoncrab]

@wesp5

Given authors can set their missions anywhere and we all love shiny new assets I am certain there are are some who would appreciate having a new asset to use for a world map if you posted one. 

Why you think you should alter the art and setting of author's missions - both elements of the story - is beyond me but I doubt that will stop you.

All in service of what? This fictional universe diverges from the history of continental Europe almost 1500 years ago and features ghosts and werewolves, but somehow this cannot conceivably fit in that framework? Really the wiki goes through pains to specify that everything is a suggestion and what actually matters are the intentions of fm authors. They do not need you to decide this for them.

I will say I don't want your map in my mission and ask that you please exclude it from your patch. I actually spent a lot of time trying to create some continuity with the larger world and building off of elements mentioned in the background on the wiki. I have readables which speak to specific geography of Bridgeport and the larger world which do not conform with yours. The conflict with Menoa features heavily as well with many characters being Menoan war veterans. I guess in your mind Menoa was Ireland?

[wesp5]

30 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

I will say I don't want your map in my mission and ask that you please exclude it from your patch. I actually spent a lot of time trying to create some continuity with the larger world and building off of elements mentioned in the background on the wiki. I have readables which speak to specific geography of Bridgeport and the larger world which do not conform with yours. The conflict with Menoa features heavily as well with many characters being Menoan war veterans. I guess in your mind Menoa was Ireland?

I never spend much thought about that, I only replaced two maps that pretty much show that Bridgeport is in southern France with old maps of England on which you can hardly see anything, least of all the exact location of Bridgeport. In my opinion this makes the world much more consistent and does not change other details, as like you say, Menoa could be Ireland and the moors could be from Spain. These are less consistency problems to me than the climate, the architecture and the language. If you don't want those maps changed in your mission just don't use the patch. Otherwise I could also make it so, that in your missions the old maps are used if you provide me with a list of affected missions...

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[Kukutoo]

What about the Pagan clans to the North?
We have the Gaul, and German tribes that have been named in readable and some maps, one for example is the Accountant series. 

[wesp5]

28 minutes ago, Kukutoo said:

We have the Gaul, and German tribes that have been named in readable and some maps, one for example is the Accountant series. 

If they really have been named elsewhere besides on the smaller map we have a problem ;). Still I would like it much better if the bigger map showing Bridgeport was a newly created one and not so realist that you can clearly see its Avignon .

[Airship Ballet]

11 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

you can clearly see its Avignon .

Can you? I could swear the map says Bridgeport.

[wesp5]

32 minutes ago, Airship Ballet said:

Can you? I could swear the map says Bridgeport.

Yeah, but both text font and size are different and it's even worse for Braeden. Maybe it's time to update that map anyway, if only we had a good template! It doesn't need to be England, it just shouldn't be so close to the real France, more like that smaller map. Also I did a quick RAR search through all mission files and I couldn't find "german" or "gaul". As far as I remember they are always called "pagans" and I can fix that easily for the smaller map, but where to get the big one?

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[Wellingtoncrab]

@wesp5

Given the quality of your responses to this thread I suspect you are not reading much and understanding even less.

Bridgeport is ultimately whatever the author decides it is. So either you will respect my wish not to alter the setting of my mission in your patch, or you won’t as you have implied.

I don’t think you advertise your patch as changing story elements of missions and I don’t think players who install it are expecting these types of changes.

I respect the work you have done in the preservation of Vampire: Bloodlines but your focus on these types of details has been adding minimal value.

I will place a disclaimer on my mission thread and on future releases advising players not to play them with your patch installed.

[wesp5]

37 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

Given the quality of your responses to this thread I suspect you are not reading much and understanding even less.

I think you didn't understand my answer, I can make the old maps appear in your missions, I only need to know which they are, except from IRIS. Due to the modular design of TDM this really isn't a problem and I will honor your request!

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[Wellingtoncrab]

@wesp5Just Iris - thank you!

[wesp5]

1 hour ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

@wesp5Just Iris - thank you!

Done and uploaded. I also reverted the smaller map to the original only renaming the Germanic and Gaulic tribes to Pagan tribes and I found a public domain historical map of Europe on Wikipedia which leaves the location of Bridgeport open, so it could be London or Venice like a mission author wants it. Would you accept those or do you want to keep the old ones?

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[Airship Ballet]

Could you not put your map in its own thread, or one for your patch as a whole? This is @Kukutoo's thread for his work.

[wesp5]

I think this is right on topic here. Maybe I could add some of the locations Kukutoo placed to the smaller map ingame? Like the city to the east would most certainly be Seaport and there are five more already visible there. But you are right, maybe it's time to create a thread for the patch...

Edited August 16, 2022 by wesp5

[geegee]

I think the original topic has been somewhat derailed.  Nothing is said about this being in the same ballpark as official or definitive or that anything about it should be included in game maps or rigidly adhered to by mappers.  

For my part I was pleased to see that Scarletbotham's Manor was correctly located in an area near the "Celtic" land.  I consider "Celtic" to be a fictive word in these romanticized fictional settings.

A lot of the problems "is Bridgeport in France?" etc. can be solved by erasing the larger Mediterranean from the map, including the distinctive boot of Italy.  And "Corsica".  Make the boundaries vague, like how dragons mark unexplored areas in some old maps.

[wesp5]

5 hours ago, geegee said:

A lot of the problems "is Bridgeport in France?" etc. can be solved by erasing the larger Mediterranean from the map, including the distinctive boot of Italy.

That is more or less how the smaller map works, it shows too little context to locate the area. As for the larger map, as well as the one of the Eastern Empire, both very obviously show Europe and while browsing the historical maps on Wikipedia and Archive.org I couldn't find any maps that are more suitable, so I left the location of Bridgeport open. At least I used the occassion the topic came up to label some of the bigger cities in the smaller map, thanks to Kukutoo!

[geegee]

4 hours ago, wesp5 said:

That is more or less how the smaller map works ...

You realize that you've hijacked both Kukutoo's topic and idea for a contribution? You've turned the discussion toward you and your patch, your new plans for in-game maps and whatever - even though this is a completely different idea than that originally explained?  I was discussing Kukutoo's map.  I agree with those who think you should start your own thread so you can talk about your idea for adding a map to your patch.