Zombies

[Springheel]

Now that we're cutting back on our AI expectations, we should probably revisit the idea of using the Doom3 zombies rather than creating our own from scratch. I don't think they're quite core enough to justify making our own (at the expense of a more versatile AI), but they are pretty important in a number of Thief missions, and since we already have haunts it would be a shame not to have them.

 

 

As it turns out, most of the D3 zombies have too much obviously-modern clothing to use (though perhaps with some skin changes they'd be ok). However, the one below would work very well and is a comparable size to our own models. We probably wouldn't need anything more than the standard D3 animations, and could even reuse the sounds. And since zombies don't really require sophisticated searching abilities or anything like that, how much modifcation would they need to be useable? Ishtvan?

[Dram]

I think we should speed up the anim rate though, as they move waay too slow atm imo.

[Springheel]

We could do that if we have some spare time. Though I don't think they're currently much different than the T2 zombies, which were also pretty slow.

 

What I'm mainly interested in is how difficult it would be to make the zombies behave appropriately for a stealth game--in other words, not charging directly towards your position the moment they hear anything. We could even keep the D3 gib effect for when they're hit with holy water if we want. It doesn't seem like they'd require a lot of modification, but it may be more difficult than it seems.

[Dram]

Nono, the anim can be sped up just by opening up the md5anim in notepad and changing animrate to a higher value.

[Ishtvan]

Adapting them to TDM should be fairly easy, ~0.5-1 hours of work. We just have to make a def file for them, starting by copying the D3 def file, then change their scriptobject from the D3 AI script to our own AI script, make sure the anims are titled correctly and if not, change the anim names in the def file. Undead don't have to be KO'd or drown I guess, so we don't need to worry about setting up the position of the center of the head like on our other AI. Ordinarily that would be another step when converting an AI to TDM. [EDIT: Wait, we still have to do that in order for the FOV to be exactly correct]

 

Are they missing any animations that we need? I can't think of any.

[Springheel]

I'm not quite sure what animations they have...all I've ever seen them do is shamble and attack. Of course, that's all the T2 zombies ever did--actually, no, they did have a simple, 'look around' animation, but that could probably be handled with simple head/torso turning.

 

Well, if half-an-hour is all it takes to get functioning zombies in the game, then I say we do it!

 

In fact, I just thought of an excuse for finding a few zombies in the demo map.

[sparhawk]

Yeah! Good idea!

[New Horizon]

Sweet. Yeah, the doom 3 zombies are fine...some new, more disgusting skins and they should be great.

 

I'll add some 'thiefish' zombie voices to my list for this map as well.

[Springheel]

I'm pretty sure that zombie model already has an alternate 'hell' skin as well, so there's already a little variety. We're limited in what we can do with skins for that model because it's mirrored down the middle, so any dirt, wounds, etc are mirrored and look obvious. But the two existing skins are still good enough for us to use.

[New Horizon]

I'm pretty sure that zombie model already has an alternate 'hell' skin as well, so there's already a little variety. We're limited in what we can do with skins for that model because it's mirrored down the middle, so any dirt, wounds, etc are mirrored and look obvious. But the two existing skins are still good enough for us to use.

 

Hmmm, can't we pull that into lightwave and remove the mirroring? I thought I read someone did that?

[Springheel]

Sure, if someone wants to make a new UVmap and skin they could make one that isn't mirrored.

 

I don't think there's any immediate need to do that, however.

[Dram]

The big advantage of skins is that you can set parts to nodraw. They do this all the time on the zombies.

 

We should use this for things like the wheelbarrow, having it filled with whatever we want, and it would look correct accordingly (as in we can make sharp edges for metal junk while smooth edges for gold etc), just texture one with nodraw and it's all good.

 

I was thinking we should set this type of thing for the market stalls. I can do that actually, as I'll need it for the alpha map.

[Schatten]

It aches my heart, I really wish we could have done something different for them, but I guess there's nothing that can be done about that.

[Domarius]

We're making short-cuts all over the place right now, you'd better get used to it It doesn't mean the extra stuff will never be done, it just means not right now.

[Schatten]

Yeah I know, and I actually think it's the right thing to do, too. I'll just pretend they're placeholders for now.

[Springheel]

I can't seem to find the alternate skin for zombie_boney. I was sure there was one, but listed under a different name, like 'children of hell' or something like that. Does that ring a bell for anyone?

[Domarius]

Yeah I know, and I actually think it's the right thing to do, too. I'll just pretend they're placeholders for now.

That's right. I'm dying on the inside having to give everyone the same walk, run, and search movement cycle animations, but I know it's just a temporary solution.

[New Horizon]

That's right. I'm dying on the inside having to give everyone the same walk, run, and search movement cycle animations, but I know it's just a temporary solution.

 

I'm not too upset about it really. It worked for Thief 1 and 2, I don't think it will be the end of the world for Dark Mod.

[Domarius]

I don't expect you or anyone else to care as much as I do, because you wouldn't know the difference until you've seen it.

 

Each respective member cares about their area more than any other area, and that's what improves the overall experience of the final product.

 

The anims in T1 and T2 didn't "work" for me.

[New Horizon]

I don't expect you or anyone else to care as much as I do, because you wouldn't know the difference until you've seen it.

 

I care equally about every department, and I'm pretty sure I would know the difference without seeing it, I do see people walking around every day like anyone else.

 

If we had the resources, I would be all for it, but we don't...so T1 and 2 level animations will have to suffice...unless we are suddenly hit by an influx of animators to help you.

[Darkness_Falls]

Can we make them (or some) explode upon being killed?

[Domarius]

@NH - You mean we are cutting corners? Wow, I had no idea...

I know you care about all parts of the mod equally, which is why I care about animation more than you do, because it's all I'm working on. I care about those particular anims, you don't. That's fine. Thanks for sharing.

 

Can we make them (or some) explode upon being killed?

Again, no not yet. That's extra work, which we're trying to avoid.

[New Horizon]

I care about those particular anims, you don't. That's fine. Thanks for sharing.

 

Alrighty, then I guess that makes you Mother Theresa. Didn't mean to cause any offense...but I guess that I obviously don't give a shit about anything.

[sparhawk]

I know you care about all parts of the mod equally, which is why I care about animation more than you do, because it's all I'm working on. I care about those particular anims, you don't. That's fine. Thanks for sharing.

 

I guess you are the only one caring for the mod. All the others are just lurkers waiting for you to finish the mod, so they can badmouth it.

[Gildoran]

@Domarius: You shouldn't get so worked up... there will be time to make multiple animation sets after the first release. We just need something basic for now.