The Texture Chopping Block

[angua]

How does this texture look in the ambient texture lighting? Might need a slight local (real) ambient light to lift it.

You were right, the texture looked completely flat in fast ambient. I added some kind of filter stage now to darken the edges that is only present in fast ambient. This is with standard (rebb's version) and fast ambient:

 

We also have some other textures that look too flat in fast ambient (especially in the stone/sculpted folder, I can add something similar there.

 

The more technical stuff:

I took the blue channel of the normal map and inverted it, also changed brightness/contrast and scaled the image down (no need for a large image, 256x128 was sufficient here).

Then I added a stage to the shader that inverts the image and scales the brightness with the globals, so that the edges will become darker the brighter the ambient is:

  {
  blend 	gl_zero,gl_one_minus_src_color
  map	   textures/darkmod/angua/protruding_bricks_filter
  red	   global2 * 10
  green	 global3 * 10
  blue	  global4 * 10
  }

One drawback is that it also darkens the edges in areas which are not only lit by ambient, but this is not really a problem in this case.

[OrbWeaver]

Tell you the truth I don't know, my assumption was it was required to control it, and without it... well who knows what happens. I didn't consider it as an actual effective '0' value, which actually makes more sense.

 

If you don't have a specular map, Doom 3 uses full black instead, i.e. no specular. Just like if you don't have a normal map, it uses _flat which is an image containing only the "flat blue" colour.

[OrbWeaver]

I took the blue channel of the normal map

 

Good idea, I never thought of doing that. To create height from normal maps I have always used edge filtering, which kind of works but requires a lot of effort to look right.

[Springheel]

Every pixel on the spec map affects the hue of the specular on it and its value effects the intensity. Surely you know this...?

 

Obviously. But you seemed to be claiming that no specular was actually brighter than a pure black specular, which didn't seem likely to me.

[angua]

Ok, I replaced the protruding bricks with the new version. I'm interested how this is going to look in Dram's map.

[Dram]

I thought maps like Blackheart, Gathers etc are going to be part of the main release package no? If so then there should be no custom pk4s for these maps.

 

@Dram: do you still want to have angua replace the texture, or keep it and put it in a pk4 or map_specific for blackheart?

 

I think I'll avoid having custom pk4s for my maps, causes clusterfuckage etc hehe.

 

 

@Angua: MY GOD - that is an absolutely awesome replacement!

[Springheel]

They're going to have to be pk4 files to be loaded by the mission loader anyway, aren't they? We're not going to be able to hardcode them into the loader like we did for St. Lucia.

[Dram]

They're going to have to be pk4 files to be loaded by the mission loader anyway, aren't they? We're not going to be able to hardcode them into the loader like we did for St. Lucia.

 

Not exactly, as the mission file itself is in the maps/ folder, so unless something has changed and I am a bit behind, then basically the loader loads up the mission as if it were a separate "mod" via it being in its own folder, but the map file etc is still in the main darkmod directory. Basically the loader only needs the startingmap.txt

[Fidcal]

Yes, I think you are a bit behind. All FMs will be zips that contain two root folders I think. One is darkmod\fms with startingmap.txt and I think currentfm.txt and the other folder is eg, myfm with everything else in including the pk4 (if used at all.) The player extracts the zip into the doom3 folder not the darkmod folder so the control stuff gets added into the darkmod\fms folder plus there is now a new folder eg, doom3\myfm. Any pk4 is within that myfm folder. The player then starts up TDM and should see the new FM loaded listed. I think that's how it works. If you select install then currentfm.txt is copied into the darkmod folder, TDM is relaunched and now myfm is the current mod.

[Dram]

Yes, I think you are a bit behind. All FMs will be zips that contain two root folders I think. One is darkmod\fms with startingmap.txt and I think currentfm.txt and the other folder is eg, myfm with everything else in including the pk4 (if used at all.) The player extracts the zip into the doom3 folder not the darkmod folder so the control stuff gets added into the darkmod\fms folder plus there is now a new folder eg, doom3\myfm. Any pk4 is within that myfm folder. The player then starts up TDM and should see the new FM loaded listed. I think that's how it works. If you select install then currentfm.txt is copied into the darkmod folder, TDM is relaunched and now myfm is the current mod.

 

Yes, this is actually our system up until the release of SL, after which it no longer functions as far as I am aware. Nonetheless, our main mod maps are going to be distributed along with TDM v1.0 correct? I think it would be too clustered if they were released as separate files altogether from the mod.

[Fidcal]

As far as the zip goes yes I assume any missions released with the main mod will be within the one archive - but the structure I expect will be the same. I doubt it's been fully considered yet. Suppose it includes the root folders:

 

blackheart

darkmod

 

With the currentfm.txt both in darkmod and in darkmod/fms so it is already installed by default and compatible with future FMs. Don't know how UNinstall will be handled. At the moment I see a downloaded FM being UNinstalled by...

 

1. No actual UNinstall but install another FM (ie, select to be current.)

2. Manually delete the uninstalled FM's folder.

3. The player still optionally has the original downloaded archive on CD.

 

We see that 3 is not available to the default mission(s) included with TDM.

 

This highlights the confusion with the word 'install' which I think maybe should be 'make current' or similar and leave the word 'install' to its normal meaning of 'positioned on the user's hard drive' - in other words, the download and extraction is installing.

 

But this is still conjecture and I don't think it is decided yet. We might not have much choice if we don't have enough manpower.

[SneaksieDave]

How comical is it that in 6 pages and more than a year and a half, we can't get rid of one texture?

 

It looks like we have a new issue brewing. Might need its own thread.

[Tels]

How comical is it that in 6 pages and more than a year and a half, we can't get rid of one texture?

 

It looks like we have a new issue brewing. Might need its own thread.

 

Yes, and since the whole "tdmlancher" issue was inherited by me, I'll have a look into it sometime soon. (e.g. before release).

 

No use talking about things that we don't even have a proof-of-concept yet.

[Dram]

How comical is it that in 6 pages and more than a year and a half, we can't get rid of one texture?

 

It looks like we have a new issue brewing. Might need its own thread.

 

Actually sneaks, we already decided further above that we would take the approach of brutal cutting but having a comprehensive list of viable replacements for the removed textures. It's just that we went on a tangent about other stuff afterward, as our team does often hehe

[greebo]

I thought we already replaced that protruding bricks texture? Am I missing something?

[Springheel]

we already decided further above that we would take the approach of brutal cutting but having a comprehensive list of viable replacements for the removed textures.

 

We're proceeding in the following way:

 

1. Ask for nominees. Anyone who wants to nominate a texture for removal can post it here.

 

2. Make a testmap of all nominated textures--preferably a hallway where people can walk down and gaze at examples of any nominees (perhaps with texture name or a number added for easy discussion). Would you be ok handling this Sneaksie?

 

3. Post somewhere clearly that the map is ready and people should check it out. People should ONLY respond if they strongly disagree with a texture being removed.

 

4. After a reasonable period of time (two or three weeks, perhaps), any texture that has NOT had someone speak up on its behalf will be deleted from SVN. If a mapper still wishes to use it they must add it to their map_specific folder.

 

5. Any textures that get an "I'd like to keep it but it just needs a little work" response should be posted in the texture thread. If someone volunteers to fix it, fine--it can be recorded on the bugtracker. If no one volunteers to fix it, it should be removed from SVN.

 

 

We're basically on step #1. It's now up to people to nominate crappy textures for the map.

 

I'll start: textures/darkmod/stone/bricks/diagonal_cross

[SneaksieDave]

My opinions on current nomnomnominations:

 

angua's replacement for: textures/darkmod/stone/brick/grey_protruding_bricks (already nominated and displayed in map)

 

-Looks good

 

textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/flagstones06_granite (already nominated and displayed in map)

 

-Should go

 

textures/darkmod/stone/brick/diagonal_cross (mentioned by SH above)

 

-This one has always rubbed me kinda wrong as well. I think it might be salvagable by a skilled texture artist. The first version was worse, and what is there now, IIRC, is my attempt at improving it long ago. Maybe someone else should have a look (or failing that, I might). My reluctance to heave it is based on the fact that it has definite application for courtyard / pavilion types of areas.

 

Will update the map with new nomination shortly.

[Springheel]

Don't bother updating the map yet...if we start voting on every single texture one at a time we'll never get anywhere.

 

People should continue to nominate textures for the next two weeks in this thread. At that point, we can make a map that people just have to go through *once* (if people have to load a map to look at every texture individually they likely won't bother). At that point, people only comment on ones they feel strongly about keeping. If they don't particularly care about any of them, then no comment is needed.

 

Sneaksie, since you're the one who keeps talking about needing to cull textures, the onus probably falls on you to point out the ones that are bad.

[SneaksieDave]

Didn't check back at the thread, so the map is already updated (it was a useful venture anyway; found a pretty serious issue in DR). It shows all three nominations now, with text, varied lighting conditions and tiling levels, etc.

 

I think the prob with the diagonal cross is the low resolution of it. Maybe someone knows how to artificially improve that.

[Tels]

Here is another texture I think should either be improved (normalmap made stronger?) or go:

 

textures/darkmod/stone/cobblestones/tiling_1d/bricks_blocks_roughmix

 

It looks totally flat and non-descript in game. (Can post screenshot later, currently at my laptop)