Baddcog's Models

[Baddcog]

Well, this is the mtr

///////////////
//cubemap no alpha
///////////////
teapot_env
{
metal

  {
			   blend   diffusemap
		 map   models/darkmod/props/textures/bc_teapot.tga
  }

  bumpmap	  models/darkmod\props/textures/bc_teapot_local.tga
  {
  blend add
  cubeMap	  env/gen1
  texgen	  reflect
  }

specularmap models/darkmod/props/textures/bc_teapot_s.tga
}

 

hacked from a guy at D3W. I deleted a bit of stuff, his was glass so there was translucent, ect...

 

Give it a test though, let me know what you think. I think it definitely adds some depth.

 

-edit-

looks like env folder has the reflections, just checked and that's where our water reflections are. so gen1 must be a stock doom reflection map, 'general reflection #1' eh? Too lazy to look in those pk4's

[Crispy]

Right, so it's a pre-calculated cube map, not an actual realtime-calculated reflection (like the water in city_area is, for example).

 

Checked it out in-game using testmodel. The effect is subtle but I think I can see it. Looks good to me.

 

There did seem to be some sharp-edged polys on the teapot that looked odd, possibly because of the lighting angle. The teapot was being lit from the back (so the handle was closest to the light source), and there were some unnaturally dark triangles around the base of the spout.

[Springheel]

Right, so it's a pre-calculated cube map, not an actual realtime-calculated reflection

 

Ah, ok. I thought it was real-time!

[OrbWeaver]

I'm not sure why you would want forceShadows, my understanding is that shadows simply don't work properly for twosided materials, so forceShadows will not achieve anything except ugly Z-fighting.

 

If alpha maps are being used to save polys, a shadowmesh would be a better option IMO.

[Springheel]

I haven't noticed any problems with twosided and forceshadows when applied to models. It's only when it is applied to brushes that I've seen z-fighting.

[Baddcog]

I think I did add forceshadows already but didn't even notice a change, have to look into it more when the time is at hand.

 

As far as the env map goes.

I do think these can help make silver and gold stand out as highly polished precious metals. However the one I tested with, if studied carefully enough, gives the impression of a dark area with flourescent lights. I'm gonna try and make a env map that is more fitting to our situation. No strong details so it won't look like it's the wrong room. Just a mix of dark color/shapes and maybe some highlights that would be alot more like torches.

The details of the env map on the teapot aren't really even recognizable, they are small and distort alot.

 

@Crispy,

I did notice some weird lighting there too. I even rechecked in Max. All the verts are welded AND I redid the smoothing. Still happens in game.

I'm actually thinking (not confirmed) that it might have to do more with being a higher poly moveable/dynamic lighting. I'll be looking into it more, the model is also going to be a bit smaller eventually so that'll help somewhat.

I'm also going to try NoSelfShadow as I think it's own shadows might be making it weird.

[Crispy]

As far as the env map goes.

I do think these can help make silver and gold stand out as highly polished precious metals. However the one I tested with, if studied carefully enough, gives the impression of a dark area with flourescent lights. I'm gonna try and make a env map that is more fitting to our situation. No strong details so it won't look like it's the wrong room. Just a mix of dark color/shapes and maybe some highlights that would be alot more like torches.

The details of the env map on the teapot aren't really even recognizable, they are small and distort alot.

Yeah, true. Good plan.

 

@Crispy,

I did notice some weird lighting there too. I even rechecked in Max. All the verts are welded AND I redid the smoothing. Still happens in game.

I'm actually thinking (not confirmed) that it might have to do more with being a higher poly moveable/dynamic lighting. I'll be looking into it more, the model is also going to be a bit smaller eventually so that'll help somewhat.

I'm also going to try NoSelfShadow as I think it's own shadows might be making it weird.

Aye, definitely mess around with the shadowing options a bit; now that I think about it some more, barfed shadowing sounds like a very likely cause. Maybe even turn off shadowcasting on it altogether just to see if that makes the problem go away - then you'll know if it's a shadow problem or a shading problem.

[Springheel]

I'm gonna try and make a env map that is more fitting to our situation. No strong details so it won't look like it's the wrong room. Just a mix of dark color/shapes and maybe some highlights that would be alot more like torches.

 

Hmm, I haven't had time to look at the example yet, but I find it hard to imagine a generic env map that would look good in all situations. What if there aren't any torches around, for example?

 

The teapot was being lit from the back (so the handle was closest to the light source), and there were some unnaturally dark triangles around the base of the spout.

 

Yeah, that sounds like the 'problem' of using normalmaps to simulate roundness. Nothing you can do but turn selfshadows off.

[Baddcog]

I did correct the NoSelfShadows problem. Looks much better, as do alot of moveables probably. You can actually see the model better while holding it without all those shadows.

 

@Springheel,

If the env_map is really toned down I think it'll give pretty good results. It just adds a kindof shine, glimmer to the object. I threw one in the shadows and for a quick second it reminded me of the glimmer in T3. Not blue at all, but it did stand out just a bit more than other objects.

 

I think this would be great for loot items in really dark spots anyway, the player wouldn't have to use light to have a recognition of loot.

 

--Edit--

I checked out different stock env maps. Some cool stuff can be done, albiet most of it is too overdone for this. But a few really close one are:

gen1 (the test map)

bland (not bad, some details too sharp)

act1, probably my favorite so far,

[OrbWeaver]

The problem of using a fixed env map is that if you take the moveable into a dark area or extinguish all of the lights, it is going to look extremely stupid with its shining "fake" reflection of an otherwise pitch-dark room.

 

This is not a problem in D3/Q4 where you cannot control the lighting, but I don't see it working for moveables in TDM.

[Springheel]

I threw one in the shadows and for a quick second it reminded me of the glimmer in T3.

 

That certainly isn't the way to win me over.

 

I'm back at work and have been busy with character models so I haven't had time to check out the new test maps, but I should get to them this weekend.

[Baddcog]

Yeah, I knew that comparing it to T3 was a bad idea. I didn't really like that blue glow either. Funny thing is the env map shimmer is a blue sheen that rivals T3 loot. So T3 loot IS very easy and possible

But with a very dark map with few colors, mixed with the diffuse, normal and specular on the teapot look pretty good to me. Even in the dark, there is a little shine in the dark but I think it can be close to eliminated. Seeing the reflections on the model look cool in the light.

 

I prefer fairly subtle effects myself, just adding a hint of an effect can have the best results.

 

I'm not gonna go and change everything any time soon though I just wanna play with it and see how good the results could actually be.

 

I do think one cool use of the env map would be on magic items, quest items, artifacts. This would be like one or a pair of items per mission, not every item.

[Springheel]

I checked the teapot out, finally. The first thing that hit me is that it's *huge*. Bigger than a man's torso at the moment.

 

I'm not sure I have the most recent noselfshadow version, because there were still some odd blocky shadows on it. I didn't really notice an env map, though there were some odd blue colours that didn't seem to be coming from anywhere. If that was it, then I can't say I'm a big fan.

 

On the plus side, I love the model itself and the detailing is great.

[Baddcog]

specimen, octopus, needs some tweak

[Springheel]

Ha! That's cool.

[Nyarlathotep]

Very interesting...

[Crispy]

Nice.

 

A whole series of possibly-unidentifiable squidgy things in jars would be awesome.

[jdude]

make an empty jar too so we can put stuff in it

[Springheel]

make an empty jar too so we can put stuff in it

 

Unless it's a static mesh and not a movable, that doesn't work, unfortunately.

[Baddcog]

Well, basically the empty jar is already made, just needs exported that way.

 

And filling up a static is fine for props I think. I made these moveables just to test, but this one'll probably only be static as far as I'm concerned. Alot of them probably.

 

Depends on contents though. I was gonna stuff mushrooms in one, if it's full then you could throw it around and it won't be weird. But the octo has liquid so moving it is bad.

 

I guess I could do them sans liquid too if we think these should all be moveable. I just thought the liquid gave em more of a mad scientist appeal. However I'm having a hard time with the shader, to make the glass and liquid transparent I've been using the translucent keyword. But that seems to make the tex glow more as the opacity is increased. I want thick liquid without glow.

As you can see in that octo pic the liquid is very bright.

[Ishtvan]

I think if, realistically, the stuff in the jar would flop around as you turned the jar over or shook it around, it probably should not be a moveable. IMO, that's another one of those "uncanny valley" things where the added realism of moving around the jar makes the un-realism of the stuff inside not moving around stick out. For stuff that's tightly packed or stuck in a thick gel, moving it wouldn't look bad.

 

I could be wrong though, maybe a squid sticking to the jar when you turn it upside-down wouldn't be that bad.

[Springheel]

IMO, that's another one of those "uncanny valley" things where the added realism of moving around the jar makes the un-realism of the stuff inside not moving around stick out.

 

If the jar isn't a moveable, what happens if the thing that's under it IS a moveable? What if the jar is sitting on a moveable crate, for example, or on top of a moveable book? Won't it just hang in the air if the crate or book is moved?

[Nyarlathotep]

That's why you'd set it to be a static, too.

[Baddcog]

wip

[Crispy]

Diabolical!

 

Is this a statue or a character? I ask because from that shot it looks like he's in a T-pose.