New Bow Anim

[SneaksieDave]

I think this is the kind of thing that needs to be "just right". It's going to be one of the thief's main tools, and we shouldn't just try to get used to it. Of course that's tough with differing opinions, but hopefully we can come to a great end result eventually, if everyone will chime in and give feedback.

 

Just sayin'.

[New Horizon]

The bow in T1 and T2 was darn near perfect in my opinion, and even the slanted bow in T3 felt right. Would it be possible to take several screens of drawing back the bow in T1/2, and then just use them as a guide to line up with our version? It doesn't have to be exactly the same, but it was something that worked quite well....why not use it as a guide. The slant can be added after we get it lined up with the positioning of the original...just to get the feel right.

[Dram]

Well in any case, I guess we could also let people choose between the upright bow and the slanted bow, or if you guys want to keep the upright bow I made out then I can just chuck it up after release as a little "bow mod" type thing. Does'nt really matter.

 

As for getting the slanted bow right, SD is right in that it's a main tool and has to be "right". Currently, I found the version on SVN to be not too accurate, it was hard aiming etc. The upright version with the sight is obvious and very easy to aim with, so at least that solves the problem for those who liked the T1/2 bow, but our TDM bow will need to be perfected, definitely.

[New Horizon]

As for getting the slanted bow right, SD is right in that it's a main tool and has to be "right". Currently, I found the version on SVN to be not too accurate, it was hard aiming etc. The upright version with the sight is obvious and very easy to aim with, so at least that solves the problem for those who liked the T1/2 bow, but our TDM bow will need to be perfected, definitely.

 

The slanted T3 bow was also very good, but it also had a sight on it. It might be easiest to get things perfected with a slanted bow + sight, and then provide a checkbox to add or remove the sight.

[Springheel]

Ok, there are basically three issues here, as I see it.

 

1. Making sure the hand/bow does not block the player's ability to aim far away.

 

 

2. Making sure the drawing/animations look believable

 

 

3. Making sure the arrow goes where it looks like it should go.

 

 

I think some of those issue might be mutually exclusive. For instance, the most realistic looking angle for the arrow (to make it look like it's held at your cheek) would be difficult to aim with.

 

I think the best way to go is to copy what they did in T3 and Oddity's original version, and lower the angle of the arrow. This may look like the arrow is coming from too low, but I think it is best for issues 1&2.

 

Here are some images from the last discussion we had on this issue.

 

 

 

 

Oddly, they all look extremely similar to me.

 

Along with a few quotable points:

 

I also think the hand should be brought closer to the face to combat D3's harsh perspective. Otherwise the arrow tip will barely be distinguishable for different models.

 

There shouldn't be any need for a sight. If you look at the T2 shots, even then the arrow points directly towards where you're going to hit. That's all that is needed.

 

I also noticed in T3, they made no attempt to make it look like the arrow was coming from the bow. When you fire, the bow *instantly* vanishes and you see the arrow trail going straight away from you, rather than at the slant it is on when you're aiming.

 

 

It seems like the key in all three shots is to lower the entire arm, so that the hand is below the center of the screen. Dram, could you duplicate something like the bottom one? Lower the hand and bring the arms closer to the player?

[sparhawk]

I also noticed in T3, they made no attempt to make it look like the arrow was coming from the bow. When you fire, the bow *instantly* vanishes and you see the arrow trail going straight away from you, rather than at the slant it is on when you're aiming.

 

If the arrow is close to your face, as it is while holding it for aiming, then of course the slant looks much stronger then it will be when the arrow moves away, but imo this is more a viewangle/camera distortion issue.

[Dram]

Dram, could you duplicate something like the bottom one? Lower the hand and bring the arms closer to the player?

 

Sure, I should have it done probably by friday night.

[Springheel]

Oops, I added a new picture after I said "Bottom One".

 

I think the ideal combination would be the angles of the top one, with the 'closeness' (ie, the hand is closer to the player and therefore not so small) of the middle one. Though in the end, they're all quite similar.

[SneaksieDave]

Among those three, I think the top one is the best by far. IMO, the bottom one (TDS) has way too sharp an angle from the side, almost like the player is hugging a tree instead of firing an arrow.

 

Edit:

I think the ideal combination would be the angles of the top one, with the 'closeness' (ie, the hand is closer to the player and therefore not so small) of the middle one.

I concur.

[Dram]

LOL....please decide guys

[Baddcog]

I also think the top looks best, it has less arrow angle.

[Springheel]

Ok, so we're going with the angles in the top one, but with the player's hand a little closer to the camera.

[Dram]

Ok, so we're going with the angles in the top one, but with the player's hand a little closer to the camera.

 

Thank you as soon as I get back I'll get on it

[Dram]

I'm currently working a lot on the map, so I work on the anims only a bit in the leftover time, but this should be done by about saturday or sunday this week.

 

Just an update.

[Ishtvan]

I have to say, for fully drawn bows, I like the vertical bow much better, shown here on the right in the new anim (sight optional)

 

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9074/bow3ys9.th.jpg

 

It has much more room below for aiming at things with a high elevation, and to me the hand position looks a little closer to what it would be when sighting down an actual bow (held vertical). I know the slant might be more reliable for combat-shooting IRL, but the vertical seems much better for aiming ingame.

[New Horizon]

I have to agree Ishtvan, after seeing Dram's more classic style bow ingame, it does look like the best solution. As you said though, the sight could be optional in the player menu.

[Baddcog]

I have to say though, in Ishtvans pic

 

(full size)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9074/bow3ys9.jpg

 

the angle looks more natural. It looks like the arm is coming from the shoulder not the chest as the vertical bow does.

[Dram]

LOL....ok guys, so what should I do then?

[Springheel]

Please continue with the angled one we'd talked about. I think it will solve all of the problems we've been discussing. If it turns out people don't like it in practice, then we can look for alternatives again.

[Ishtvan]

In all of the pics with the angled bow, I don't see how it can ever allow enough room underneath for aiming long shots. Even the TDS bow has this problem. With the vertical T2-style bow (with the arrow going slightly to the left), you have a relatively huge amount of space underneath to aim with before running into your forearm.

 

For people who didn't hear the original arguments: For shooting at static targets, it's no problem to aim straight ahead and then raise the bow up for a long shot, but if you're trying to hit a far away moving target that can change direction, you have to keep looking at it (unless you can raise the bow to the correct angle instantly).

[Baddcog]

I have noticed the arm blocking my view a bit now that I've gotten in some maps and played around a bit.

Not sure how that'll be affected by the updates.

 

One thing I have noticed is when the bow is in hand, but not raised, the top of string attachment has some really bad distortion, like the top of bow above string is pulled back 2 inches.

[Dram]

Well right now I've got no time to work on anything until thursday, that's when I have a presentation for uni and after that I can work on things again, until next week where I have an essay due.

 

I'll continue with the angled bow anims, but will only make a drawback one for testing, and if that is universally accepted then I will make the rest.

 

One thing I have noticed is when the bow is in hand, but not raised, the top of string attachment has some really bad distortion, like the top of bow above string is pulled back 2 inches.

 

It's actually just the model itself, it was made by oDD and I guess he wanted to give it a bit of a fantasy look.

[Baddcog]

That suprises me, he's such a stickler for detail. It looks broken to me.

[Ishtvan]

I thought it was a recurve bow and that's what the recurve section looks like IRL?

[Nyarlathotep]

Same here. The main part of the bow doesn't appear to have the proper 'm' shape, though--at least as far as I can tell.