New model folders

[Springheel]

So other than "food", no one has any ideas for other folders?

[greebo]

Sorry, I haven't been following the discussion very closely. I think a "map_specific" folder might be in order. The architecture directory contains some mansion_alpha models which 1. probably are of limited use for other maps and 2. are about 17000 polys each.

[Springheel]

I agree some of the models in there aren't really useful for other maps, which means they shouldn't really be there. There's some old stuff from BT that can be deleted.

 

I'm not sure of the benefit of a map-specific folder, though...if people want to use interesting architecture from other maps can't they just copy it directly from the map itself?

[greebo]

No, I wasn't referring to the brush- and patchwork, but to the actual .lwo files, like models/darkmod/architecure/mansion_stairs_01b.lwo. This baby's got 17,500 polys and is matching the exact style of mansion_alpha. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt that it will be used in any other maps except for mansion_alpha. Of course the model has to be put somewhere, that's why I suggested the map_specific folder.

 

If a model can be used in other maps as well, I'm all for saving it into the general model folders (like statues/ or graveyard/), which I did for most of the models I created for the bonehoard.

[Springheel]

Of course the model has to be put somewhere, that's why I suggested the map_specific folder.

 

I guess it's different for maps that are being made by team-members. Normally something like that would just be put in the mapper's pk4 folder, rather than being added to the mod repository, wouldn't it?

[greebo]

What do you mean with PK4 folder? The one that mappers will usually release? For team maps we don't have any PK4's yet, but they still need to store the models somewhere.

[Springheel]

Sorry, I meant pk4 *file*. Yeah, I suppose a map-specific folder would be useful for team mappers.

[angua]

I'd also like to have a more organized structure with subfolders (as it was suggested for the graveyard folder). A statues folder in decorative would be nice for example (and a folder for vases too probably?) The architecture folder also could use some reorganizing, like putting all the pillars / arches / trim / windows... together in seperate folders for example.

[Baddcog]

Sorry, back to work, hadn't had time to post.

 

First, don't be suprised if you see that staircase in ALOT of FM's. Seriously, this is the type of thing that you absolutely COULDN'T pull off in Dromed (sorry bout caps). People will see it and get excited. Also, most objects that do get maybe by authors won't be that complex, so if someone needs a grand staircase they'd probably rather use that one than make one or find somone to make one.

 

I'd include it under

 

arch

/stairs

/climable(?) for ladders

/roofs

/buildings

I also have added several staircase models and plan to do more variations.

 

Containers

/chests

/jewel boxes (maybe just use chests)

 

These are important items that people will want to use frequently/find easily. Only 3 or 4 but I intend to do more.

Also seperates them from less important, non-usable 'containers' such as crates and barrels.

 

 

I'd almost redo decorative all together.

 

Decorative

/paintings

/banners

/pots or vases, probably vases (as pots would be thought of as metal kitchen pots)

/statues

 

 

furniture

/hutches (?) for all cabinet type models

 

loot

/jewelry

/special (things like statuettes)

 

mechanical

/machines

/switches-levers-buttons(?) Gizmos?

I think we should get rid of misc all together, to vague.

The rope can go in nautical, ink&quill in household(?)

 

Household

this was a thief folder, it contained kitchen, books, personal items, ect...

Could be very useful for personal items and random household stuff that can't be placed anywhere else.

I'd probably move brooms, mops, buckets ect into household/cleaning (instead of tools)

 

tools

I have already added laboratory, only has t vials now but I plan on alot more stuff (really an inventors folder)

/mage equip(?) /magic tools?

 

weapons

 

My thoughts for now...

[Springheel]

I think most of those are good suggestions.

 

/paintings

 

We only have 3 painting models (small, medium, and large) and I can't see us ever having much more than that (maybe someone will want to make a few round ones or something).

 

I think we should get rid of misc all together, to vague.

 

I don't think we'll ever have a system that's so all-encompassing that we won't need a misc folder. Where else would you put something like a wooden flat?

 

Household

 

The problem I have with household is that it's vague. How do you define what goes in there? Things that you would find in a house? That's more like the way we had it set up originally, like "castle", "mansion", "pagan", etc. But it was far too subjective.

 

weapons

 

There already is a weapons folder.

[Springheel]

Ok, a question before we get too much further into this...how hard is it to write a basic search and replace script? If we move one or two models, I imagine it would be easy to do by hand. But if we remove the redundant "props" layer, that will mean renaming 80% of the models.

 

I think the only place the model names are used is in:

 

map files

def files

skin files

possibly gui files?

 

 

Is it easy to make a batch search and replace?

 

If so, I'm willing to go through and reorganize the folders.

[sparhawk]

Theoretically it should work already with the current scripts for the texture reorg. There is nothing special about them, so they should work, but it has to be tested. I guess for the textures I added some signatures to be sure to only catch textures, so this will need some adaption.

[Springheel]

Ok, based on people's suggestions here, I've made a proposal for a new folder structure. It builds on the original wherever possible to minimize the amount of moving files around.

 

models/weapons -- all player and AI weapons

 

models/darkmod/architecture -- pillars, railings, etc

* models/darkmod/architecture/windows -- windows, shutters, window bars

* models/darkmod/architecture/stairs

* models/darkmod/architecture/ladders

* models/darkmod/architecture/doors -- premade door models

* models/darkmod/architecture/buildings -- premade building models

* models/darkmod/architecture/pillars

* models/darkmod/architecture/arches

 

models/darkmod/map_specific

 

models/darkmod/nature -- sticks, mushrooms, non-potted plants

* models/darkmod/nature/trees -- All trees or stumps

* models/darkmod/nature/flowers -- any unpotted flowers

* models/darkmod/nature/rocks -- pebbles to boulders

 

models/darkmod/furniture -- any furniture not covered below (armoire, desks, etc)

* models/darkmod/furniture/seating -- chairs, sofas, stools

* models/darkmod/furniture/tables -- end tables, dining tables, pedestals etc

* models/darkmod/furniture/beds -- beds

* models/darkmod/furniture/shelves-- bookshelves, empty shelves

 

models/darkmod/fireplace -- logs, tools, racks, heat shields, prefab fireplaces

 

models/darkmod/kitchen -- utensils, pots, dishes, water pump, etc

* models/darkmod/kitchen/food -- anything edible

 

models/darkmod/decorative -- potted plants, globe, etc

* models/darkmod/decorative/wall -- paintings, banners, curtains, animal heads

* models/darkmod/decorative/statues -- statues and statuettes

* models/darkmod/decorative/oversize -- fountains, monuments, etc

* models/darkmod/decorative/vases

* models/darkmod/decorative/signs -- for street signs, shop signs, etc

 

models/darkmod/loot -- coins, gold vases, purses, gold goblets, etc

* models/darkmod/loot/jewellery -- necklaces, bracelets, rings, tiaras, etc

* models/darkmod/loot/coins -- coin stacks or piles

 

models/darkmod/lights/extinguishable -- any lights that can be put out by water

models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable -- any lights that cannot be put out

* models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable/streetlamps -- outdoor streetlamps

 

models/darkmod/hangers -- hooks, sign-holders, brackets, or other things to hang things on

 

models/darkmod/containers -- crates, barrels, sacks

* models/darkmod/containers/openable --chests with openable lids

 

models/darkmod/mechanical -- boilers, generators, gears

* models/darkmod/mechanical/switches -- levers, switches, buttons, etc

* models/darkmod/mechanical/pipekit -- pipes and valves

* models/darkmod/mechanical/gauges

 

models/darkmod/tools -- shovels, hammers, pick-axe, etc (NOT for player tools)

* models/darkmod/tools/household -- brooms, mops, etc.

 

models/darkmod/musical -- any musical instrument, viktrolas

 

models/darkmod/dungeon -- chains, manacles, torture devices, body parts

 

models/darkmod/wearables -- slippers, belt buckles, adornments, belt pouches

* models/darkmod/wearables/headgear -- hats, helmets, spectacles, hair-pieces

* models/darkmod/wearables/armour -- pauldrons, breastplates

 

models/darkmod/junk -- broken objects, chair legs, scrap wood, etc

 

models/darkmod/laboratory -- alchemy equipment, potion bottles (NOT player-useable potions)

 

models/darkmod/nautical -- docks, boats, anchors, ship-related stuff

 

models/darkmod/graveyard -- tombstones, crypts, etc

* models/darkmod/graveyard/bones -- skulls, etc

 

models/darkmod/readables -- books, scrolls, plaques

 

models/darkmod/misc -- anything that doesn't fit elsewhere, like rope, a wagon, etc.

 

models/darkmod/door_related -- handles, keys, and door knockers

 

models/darkmod/player_equipment -- potions, flashbombs, lockpicks, mines, etc

[angua]

Looks good!

 

In the architecture folder, there are almost 20 pillars, should we give them in a seperate folder (there are also several wood beams, trims, arches...) I think the architecture folder might be getting huge otherwise.

 

Is the texture folder also going to be reorganized (possibly with a similar structure, so we don't have that stupid huge folder anymore)?

[sparhawk]

Hmmm... So we have golden plates which are valuable. Where should they go? In loot, or in kitchen?

 

IMO what would be more usefull for this case is, if there were not a seperate loot category, instead DR could listen all items which have the loot indicator set. This could be a virtual category, which is constructed on the fly.

[PinkDot]

just cosmetic suggestions: maybe ladders and stairs could be combined into one?

 

I don't know if we need roofs...

 

Are shop signs readable? I'd say they're more decorative...

 

and I would change the name of chests into something like openable it would suit also containers like jewel box, tool box etc.

[Springheel]

In the architecture folder, there are almost 20 pillars, should we give them in a seperate folder (there are also several wood beams, trims, arches...) I think the architecture folder might be getting huge otherwise.

 

Wow, 20 pillars? I guess so then.

 

Is the texture folder also going to be reorganized (possibly with a similar structure, so we don't have that stupid huge folder anymore)?

 

Yeah, that's my next project, once we decide on where the models will go.

 

Hmmm... So we have golden plates which are valuable. Where should they go? In loot, or in kitchen?

 

Everything valuable (ie, adds to your loot total) goes in loot.

 

Are shop signs readable? I'd say they're more decorative...

 

It's a bit of grey area. If I was a new mapper looking for signs, I'd probably look under 'readables' before I'd look under 'decorative'. But we can go with whatever the majority thinks.

 

and I would change the name of chests into something like openable it would suit also containers like jewel box, tool box etc.

 

Sounds good.

[Baddcog]

I'd look under decorative for signs. That's how Dromed was. I think of readables as things you read, stories, notes, ect... Sure, you do read signs (or look at the picture) but they are a decoration for a building, there isn't too much actual purpose in reading them other than a location marker, without signs you could still tell what most locations are by their contents/design.

 

I like you should leave laboratory under tools, as they are a type of tool. I just plan on making enough to actually warrant a seperate folder.

 

There is a gauges folder under mechanical. I'd say leave it just for easy of use, since it's already there. No biggie whatever you decide.

 

Maybe stairs and ladders could just be in 'climbable'

 

roofs (?) They probably aren't needed like they were for Dromed. They can also be prefabs if someone makes em.

I noticed there is already a prefab 'roof window'

If any are made it'll probably be few and they could just be in arch,.

 

---------

I'd also like to suggest that we go ahead with an organization of the entities. Once this (the model org) is done we could follow suit and it would be very easy to cross reference. Want to see an entities model? Look under same desciption in model viewer.

 

There are bound to be some discrepancies, exmple:

 

A non-potted flower combined with pot in entity, could just be in flowers folder (not nature, not decor)

and of course no need for the models/darkmod designation for entities.

[Komag]

I also think signs are more decorative than readable, but I think there will be enough signs to have their own folder, especially if we include street signs, plaques, etc.

[Springheel]

Ok, I'll add a decorative/signs folder, and a mechanical/gauges folder. I think laboratory should stay a main folder, as there will be other things than tools in it. Flasks and potion bottles aren't really tools, for example.

 

It probably makes sense to organize entities in this way too, but one thing at a time.

[Baddcog]

But flasks ARE tools. They are tools used in Laboratories used to make potions and whatnot. Same as bunsens, ect...

 

I imagine other laboratory items like shelves will be placed under furniture, ect...

[Komag]

Just as a sidenote, so long as the folders are somewhat reasonable, people will learn where stuff is pretty quick even it they might have organized it slightly differently themselves. So basically it will be fine almost no matter what you do

[Springheel]

But flasks ARE tools. They are tools used in Laboratories used to make potions and whatnot. Same as bunsens, ect...

 

Well, you could argue that pots and spoons are tools used in kitchens to make stew, or a rack is a tool for torturers. But I don't think we want to put those in the tools folder.

 

Just as a sidenote, so long as the folders are somewhat reasonable, people will learn where stuff is pretty quick

 

Good point Komag.

[Baddcog]

My point is that the laboratory folder will probably ONLY contain laboratory tools correct? lab tools are the only lab specific items I can think of that we will have, like I said shelves would be under furniture. lab lights? under lights.

lab rats? under ai I presume.

 

So why not have it under tools as it already is. Does it really need it's own main folder?

 

Doesn't really matter, I guess there aren't a ton of main folders anyway. 6 to 12, whatever...

[sparhawk]

I can see that flasks would be under labratory (and some other alchemists stuff), because they usually are pretty disticintive and and special. But what is so special about shelves? Shelves are the same everywhere. There are variations depending on if you want to use them in a living room or in a cellar, but there is not really a difference between cellar or labratory shelves.