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Nobleman WIP


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since he's not a prop he deserves an own thread for himself...

 

(removed quoted image - I never learn)

 

Keep in mind that this is still very WIP - it needs still a lot refining (and yeah I'm aware that he's missing his hands and that the head is probably a bit too small)

 

Oh, yes, now he looks like an angry, sucessfull and rich pain-in-the-butt :)

 

Edit: And I love the textures!

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Looks good...I love the textures! Where did you get them?

 

We're using Oddity's models as a style guide for our AI, BT. He has set a pretty distinct look for our AI in terms of proportion, so if you could try to follow that to some degree it will help create a sense of unity among our AI.

 

One other thing...we want to try and hide the neck-seam as much as possible, so that head-swapping is easier. That collar looks very tight, so any neck that is slightly larger would clip through.

 

Also, we are using mitten hands for our AI now. Ascottk has the most recent version, though Oddity was going to update them--not sure if that's happened already.

 

Also, just a word of warning...those shoulders are going to be a bitch to animate without serious clipping. :)

 

Oh, another thing. :) If you could give some thought to making new skins while designed the AI, that would be great. I've been breaking meshes up into groups, like making the tunic a separate mesh from the rest, so that it can be easily modified by mappers at a later date.

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I'll probably have to scale up the boots a bit to fit Oddity's other models better..

 

Regarding the mitten-hands issue, I remember we already had that controversy last year...I'm still of the opinion that those extra polys are a good investment and that we should rather optimize the models in general and especially save more texturespace! Just for comparison: my complete nobleman model has still less polys than all the other AI models with mitten hands and without heads of the current build I've looked at today, in addition to that I'm using only 3x512 texture sheets (2 for body, 1 for the head)...

 

 

Looks good...I love the textures! Where did you get them?

 

They're not from any texture website or something similar - most of them were created using reference images of costumes.

 

nobleingame2yr6.jpg

 

only thing left to do is the hat...

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Regarding the mitten-hands issue, I remember we already had that controversy last year...I'm still of the opinion that those extra polys are a good investment and that we should rather optimize the models in general and especially save more texturespace!

 

I didn't have strong opinions either way and still don't, except that we can't have some models with mitten hands and some without. Since the rest of our models are using mitten hands, we can either 1) redo all existing hands, which would require rerigging and reanimating all the existing models, or 2) make sure all future AI models use mitten hands. I think #2 is the clear winner in this case unless someone wants to volunteer to handle #1

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Just for comparison: my complete nobleman model has still less polys than all the other AI models with mitten hands and without heads of the current build I've looked at today, in addition to that I'm using only 3x512 texture sheets (2 for body, 1 for the head)...

 

How many polys is it, out of curiosity?

 

Textures shouldn't be a concern, and should probably be 1024x1024 for AI if possible. We'll likely convert them to .dds before release, which will decrease their size by a third.

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I didn't have strong opinions either way and still don't, except that we can't have some models with mitten hands and some without. Since the rest of our models are using mitten hands, we can either 1) redo all existing hands, which would require rerigging and reanimating all the existing models, or 2) make sure all future AI models use mitten hands. I think #2 is the clear winner in this case unless someone wants to volunteer to handle #1

 

Just pointing out, they wouldn't have to be re-animated for #1. I'm pretty sure the mitten hand versions still have the same number of joints as the non-mitten hand versions we use to animate in Motion Builder.

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The current mitten hands will have to be replaced, because they look terrible. There's no point compromising quality THAT much just to save a few polys. Of course the eariler ones were too high, but we can go for something in the middle.

It's won't require re-animaitng everything, as long as we have al the aims in original fbx format, they can be easily applied to the re-rigged models.

As for the boots, I'm be scaling the boots down on my models, because some of them are too big, and changing the proportions of the model in general, to something more like this.

OF course, that doesn't mean a nobleman would be the same proportions as a guard in full armour.

post-51-1196083226_thumb.jpg

Civillisation will not attain perfection until the last stone, from the last church, falls on the last priest.

- Emil Zola

 

character models site

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It's won't require re-animaitng everything, as long as we have al the aims in original fbx format, they can be easily applied to the re-rigged models.

 

So the models will have to be rerigged, and the animations re-exported (I actually didn't mean to say re-animated). Isn't rerigging a big pain in the ass and a lot of work? If you want to volunteer to take on rerigging all the AI models then that's great, but it seems like a pretty thankless task.

 

I was planning on trying my hand at rigging but I won't have the time to take on something new like that until next summer, and I have no idea how difficult it is to get good at it.

 

Based on tests we've done, I agree that saving polys isn't really that a big a deal when it comes to AI. It's the shadow-casting polys that make the most significant difference, and if we're using simple shadowmeshes anyway, there's no real reason hands can't be much higher poly than they are now.

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So the models will have to be rerigged, and the animations re-exported
Well not even that - you can take one anim file from one character folder and just copy it over to another character and it'll work, I'm pretty sure. Only when the number of joints change do you have to re-export.
Isn't rerigging a big pain in the ass and a lot of work? If you want to volunteer to take on rerigging all the AI models then that's great, but it seems like a pretty thankless task.
I don't know, I'd be pretty thankful! :) (here comes pun material) I'm a fan of BlackThief's hands (told you so) though I don't want ascottk to think his efforts converting all the characters to mitten hands would go unnapreciated - this kind of re-working is gonna happen when making a game, but the fact that he achieved it amongst all the other stuff he did to the models and rigs shows how technically competent he is and how lucky we are to have him on the team.

 

As for rigging re-work, that's proportionate to the size of the area that has to change I'm pretty sure.

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The mitten hands are separate meshes so it's not that hard to rerig:

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=102537

The shadowmesh's rigging doesn't need to be as fancy as the the regular meshes & it's pretty easy to add other meshes to an existing rig. In Maya, select the origin joint & go to the bindpose* (*=numbered pose) tab in the attribute editor. Uncheck "Bind Pose" then it'll be ready to accept a new mesh for rigging.

 

Not that I don't mind someone else redoing my work :angry:

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Well not even that - you can take one anim file from one character folder and just copy it over to another character and it'll work, I'm pretty sure.

 

There has to be more to it than that or all our existing models would share all the same animations, and they don't. Greebo and I were discussing this earlier (forget where).

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There has to be more to it than that or all our existing models would share all the same animations, and they don't. Greebo and I were discussing this earlier (forget where).

As long as they have the same skeleton, there's no problem. The AI with different animation characteristics (builder guard, forger, and a couple of others) do not share the same animations since they are a little more specialized (hammer carried on shoulder, visor for the forger, etc.).

 

http://www.thirdfilms.com/darkwiki/index.p...ng_-_Part_Three

* When using exportmodels in Doom3Ed, The Dark Mod is using the same animations as another character. So the rigging varies between AI & that causes a lot of problem at runtime. The export decl in the def file needs extra options:

 export merc_elite {

options -scale .94
mesh merc_elitemesh.mb -dest tdm_ai_merc_elite

This tells the maya export plugin to scale the rigs a specified amount. This is really handy for different sized AI.

   addoptions -keep Hips LeftHips_Dummy blah blah2 blah3 -scale .94
  addoptions -sourcedir models/model_src/citywatch_mb -destdir models/md5/chars/guards/merc_elite

Once we define a different source directory for the animations in the def file, we don't need to "physically" copy the animations for export.

The mercenary elite uses the citywatch's animations but the rigging between the two do not match. The -keep joint option is used for these occasions. Open the md5mesh with a text editor & the af_pose.md5anim (or whichever animation you choose), exportmodels command in D3Ed, & add/subtract any joint in the def file to match joint numbers and names.
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I read that to mean that you have to rexport the animations through Maya, not "take one anim file from one character folder and just copy it over to another". Am I correct?

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I read that to mean that you have to rexport the animations through Maya, not "take one anim file from one character folder and just copy it over to another". Am I correct?

Yup, I did propose a solution a long time ago to have truly shared animations a while back. We could have three different sizes depending on the character although the rigging for each AI has to be exactly the same. That is a very difficult thing to achieve though.

 

For example the citywatch and some cityfolk could use the same directory containing the same md5anims. While the larger AI use a separate directory.

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I guess I wasn't being clear with my terminology. I didn't mean AI sharing the same animation file, which would certainly be handy for space-saving reasons. I just meant AI having the same animation 'applied' (exported) to them.

 

I really should just get a copy of Maya and start learning this stuff for myself. :)

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  • 1 year later...

What ever happened to BlackThief and the nobleman mesh?

 

BTW, "New" idea for character sizes? *Ahem* ^_^ (a few posts back)

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=134832

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7881

 

& Spring, could you put links to your main posts (maybe to your journal & stuff) in your sig? I can't find info on the AI you've been working on from oDD's unrigged characters.

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I can't find info on the AI you've been working on from oDD's unrigged characters.

 

Here are the meshes I have not done anything with:

 

*Builder Acolyte

Noblewoman

Elite Guard

Eite Citywatch

*Mage

Builder Forger

Revenant

Spider

Naked Chick

Any of the placeholders

 

The acolyte and Mage are not yet rigged and may need some work to get them ready for it. The other characters all need updating (full hands, removing head from shadowmesh, separating into effective submeshes, etc).

 

Let me know what you have in mind and I can tell you what the status is of the other characters.

 

BTW, "New" idea for character sizes? *Ahem*

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=156217

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Here are the meshes I have not done anything with:

 

*Builder Acolyte

His mesh was easy enough to separate. He just needs the proguard hands.

 

Noblewoman

New hands, headless shadowmesh & shadowmesh for the head. Have we figured out how to deal with the neck seams? She actually has a necklace to help cover it.

 

Elite Guard

hands, shadowmeshes

 

Eite Citywatch

same

 

*Mage

I didn't find the mesh in oDD's files. I'll look again when I get home.

 

Builder Forger

Custom rig although the visor bone is the only thing that's different. He already had mitten hands in his design. I think we could use the new rig and put the visor bone in the head. Although squill made a nice animation rig for him.

 

Revenant

He needs everything.

 

Spider

Why?

 

Naked Chick

Pagan Female? She had mitten hands built into her design too. They might be easily replaced though.

 

Any of the placeholders

 

The acolyte and Mage are not yet rigged and may need some work to get them ready for it. The other characters all need updating (full hands, removing head from shadowmesh, separating into effective submeshes, etc).
What about the builder prelate? I just added the new hands to him and the armor needs to be separated from his sleeves.

 

Let me know what you have in mind and I can tell you what the status is of the other characters.

 

Yes, but my post is nearly a year older than yours ;) Look at my previous postings in this thread . . .
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New hands, headless shadowmesh & shadowmesh for the head. Have we figured out how to deal with the neck seams? She actually has a necklace to help cover it.

 

Originally I was just going to reattach the head for the female models, and swap hairstyle meshes for variety instead, however we just recently reopened that issue with jointcontrols, so that may not be necessary. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=179631

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=9044

 

Custom rig although the visor bone is the only thing that's different. He already had mitten hands in his design. I think we could use the new rig and put the visor bone in the head.

 

Yes, the visor should definitely not be part of the main skeleton. Will a character of that girth work with the current rig? That's the most convenient option but he's awfully wide which makes me wonder if his arms would clip into his sides.

 

Spider

Why?

 

Why what?

 

What about the builder prelate? I just added the new hands to him and the armor needs to be separated from his sleeves.

 

I'll have to check. I had been making adjustments to him but I forget what they were at this point. I think it was to close gaps in the robe.

 

edit: Ah yes, he's already ready to be rigged. I fixed the gaps in the armour, adjusted the robes so that they were closed when in ragdoll state, removed the head from the body and separated him into submeshes. I also added a metal collar to him to close the gap at the neck which allows him to be used with alternate heads. His head is already rigged and in-game.

 

 

 

Yes, but my post is nearly a year older than yours wink.gif Look at my previous postings in this thread . . .

 

:huh: I linked you to the post where I gave you credit for originally coming up with the idea, which is was I assume this is about. If it's not, then I'm lost.

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Originally I was just going to reattach the head for the female models, and swap hairstyle meshes for variety instead, however we just recently reopened that issue with jointcontrols, so that may not be necessary. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=179631

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=9044

That's a tricky one

 

 

Yes, the visor should definitely not be part of the main skeleton. Will a character of that girth work with the current rig? That's the most convenient option but he's awfully wide and I was wondering if his arms would clip into his sides.
I'll see if the new rig can be used and modified. The character sets squill is using might work to import animations.

 

Why what?
What needs to be done with the spider?

 

I'll have to check. I had been making adjustments to him but I forget what they were at this point. I think it was to close gaps in the robe.

 

edit: Ah yes, he's already ready to be rigged. I fixed the gaps in the armour, adjusted the robes so that they were closed when in ragdoll state, removed the cowl from the body and separated him into submeshes. I also added a metal collar to him to close the gap at the neck which allows him to be used with alternate heads. His head is already rigged and in-game.

okay

 

:huh: I linked you to the post where I gave you credit for originally coming up with the idea, which is was I assume this is about. If it's not, then I'm lost.
I'm just tired as hell. I'm having trouble sleeping this week.
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What needs to be done with the spider?

 

I'm not aware that anything needs to be done with it. I was just making a list of Odd's meshes that I had not specifically worked on.

 

I'll see if the new rig can be used and modified. The character sets squill is using might work to import animations.

 

There are two other characters built on the same proportions as the forger, so that would be worthwhile.

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I did a quick check yesterday & the forger's shoulders are thin enough for the new rig so I don't think any altercations are necessary. If the arms do clip with the animations we could tweak the animations. I'd rather see if widening the shoulders on the rig would work though.

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