Animation List

[oDDity]

Don't know if this is the correct forum for this, but there doesn't seem to be an animation forum)

 

I suppose for a combatant type we'd need:

 

walk forwad

walk backward (or at least step backward)

step sideways (one for left and right, can just be mirrored)

run forward

stop suddnely

several different search modes

draw various weapons (hammer, sword, bow)

weapon attacks

weapon blocks

several idles

being hit by various weapons

several deaths (I'm not sure how much the ragdoll handles this)

lighting a torch

'what was that?' glancing from side to side

opening a door

 

I know the list seems short, but some of those have to be broken down into quite a lot of subcategories.

I think those are the basic ones whch all combatant AI will need various combinations of, though I'm sure there will be a lot more to add to the list.

 

Will our AI be jumping, climbing, mantling or swimming?

[Fingernail]

I think we perhaps missed this out. We need a comprehensive movement list generic for all characters, and then can make special animations for special characters later.

 

But there should be a list for all.

[oDDity]

There will need to be several generic lists for different AI types, yes, the zombie needs a walk forward like the human AI, but it will be completely different wheras the other can mostly share the same walk. Same goes for attacks, deaths etc.

One for combat AI, one for non-combatants, and then special ones for zombies, burricks etc.

 

None of these groups can use the same animations (well maybe they can share a few, but mostly they'll be unique)

 

These will have to be furthur broken down into sets for male and female.

 

THe city guards, private guards, Builders and haunts can pretty much share the same generic set, most of which I listed above.

If we are having female versions of these combat AI (which I don't think we should) that will mean a mostly different set of female animatons.

Zombies will need their own unique animation set, as will burricks, treebeasts and any of the other creatures that have appeared in THief over the years.

 

Are we having third person? What sort of body awareness are we having? Will we need to animate the player apart from his arms?

 

THe list that all AI could share would be quite short, just the basic movement anims, pretty much as I listed above minus the draw weapon and weapon attack anims.

 

Walk Forward

Step Backward

Step Right

Step Left

RunForward

Open Door

Idles

Deaths

Taking hits

Surprised

Search modes

Suspicious

[Springheel]

If we are having female versions of these combat AI (which I don't think we should) that will mean a mostly different set of female animatons.

 

We have been planning to include female guards, as well as female thieves, would could be combatants.

 

Are we having third person? What sort of body awareness are we having? Will we need to animate the player apart from his arms?

 

We are not having third person. We will be simulating body awareness but not actually using it, so there will be no need to animate the player other than his arms, and perhaps for mirrors? (not sure how that works)

 

Walk Forward

Step Backward

Step Right

Step Left

RunForward

Open Door

Idles

Deaths

Taking hits

Surprised

Search modes

Suspicious

 

We also need a sitting animation. We had also talked about some generic 'object use' animations...I'll see if I can find the thread.

 

I'm curious about some of those..what are the 'step right/left' animations for?

 

 

 

edit: Ok, posted it in this forum.

[oDDity]

The step rght/left/back animations are for combat, you wouldn't be much of a sword fighter if you could only move forwards. - both the combatant and the non combatant AI can also dodge using them.

It would be pretty stupid to have to implement a whole set of animation on the player just for the beneft ofthe odd mirror, but we'll need the player for cutscenes anyway I suppose.

[New Horizon]

From what I can tell, doom 3 almost seems to have the 3rd person model tucked away in the background somewhere. Standing in front of a mirror gives you the 3rd person model and turning on player shadow just gives you the shadow from that invisible model. I have my game setup to toggle from 1st to 3rd in D3 as I played around with the files earlier on to see if I could replicate the T3 body awareness...this was back before the sdk came out...and when we were still considering it as an option. If we have to create the full model anyway, some of the fans out there might just add it themselves. Could prove interesting if they did and actually got it working better than in T3. It's funny. The marine in D3 climbs ladders in 3rd person without being sucked into place like in T3. I don't think the arms move, but if they did it would suffice.

[Springheel]

A couple other generic animations I'd like to see:

 

Standing (a slight sway back and forth like T1/2...a tiny thing but hugely immersive, rather than the stone stiffness of T3)

 

Drunken standing? (mostly for guards, but could be applicable to servants or cooks)

 

Turning around (rather than the spin 180 on a dime T3 method)

 

Turning head (we need this for searching and suspicious, but it would also be nice if the AI just randomly turned their heads while going about their business, as if looking at something. Would be great if we could sinc this up with other AI in the area, so they look at each other while greeting.)

 

Climb stairs

 

Sit down/stand up

 

Doubletake (that thing they do when they realise they've been pickpocketed...could be a variation on surprise, I suppose).

 

Holding torch/lantern (would only affect certain animations)

[oDDity]

T2 used motion capture, T3 did not (as far as I coud tell) That's why the T2 AI seemed more realistic even thougbnthey were made of about 10 polygons.

We will be using motion capture for the searches and some of the idle animations, I have stair climbing mo caps, walks, runs etc, they'll have to be tweaked to get them right for our chracters, but havi g the base motion caputre helps a lot.

I have already rigged the builder guard, and put some mo cap animations on him, and am currently working out how to get him in the game as a character rather than a static.

[Springheel]

Wow, awesome news, oDDIty!

 

I remember the very first time I played Thief, in the keeper training area, when I came upon my first guard. I saw his silouhette in the darkness, and then thought, Oh my god, he's actually shifting his weight back and forth! I was extremely impressed at how realistic that felt.

[Darkness_Falls]

Me, too. I remember zooming in with my eye in T2 and looking at the guards' movements from far away and thinking, "Dang! It's like I'm there!" I'd watch them approach or leave, or walk by... and everything just seemed so realistic.

 

To be honest, I guess I didn't pay much attention to the AI movements in T3. It sounds like they sucked, though. That was probably just one more 'cause' to add to the list of what made me not be as immersed in T3 than I was in T2.

[oDDity]

*Stops toiling over his computer long enoug to wipe brow*

 

At last, after 4 solid days, I got a working character into doom with all his textures and animations working perfectly

Now I just have to make a 'proper' version of him and pray I can do it again for real...

[Fingernail]

w00t.

 

Good luck on the real thing...

 

I can now get models into D3 from Lightwave first time, no problems !

[oDDity]

Ok, well I'm happy that I can get any character with any animation into doom now....

..so, do we need a test character with a set of generic animations at this stage?

Of course, it hasn't got an AI file ATM, so it just stands there and you can cycle through the animations.

I still have to work out the ragdoll shit yet.

I'll take charge of the character's mtr, def, md5mesh and md5anim files, but the AI files are nothing to do with me guv'ner -though it has to be said some of the zombie AI scripts look pretty simple, I could almost write my own Thief zombie script from looking at these. The rest of our AI will be...slightly more complex I imagine.

[oDDity]

If any of you programmers fancy writing a simple beginner script for this hammer guard, I'll get the base animations done.

Nothing fancy for now. Just a script that will have him stand playing his idles, run and attack an enemy if he see one (not sure about if he hears one - is that harder to code?) search around a bit after the fight, and then go back to his place.

[Springheel]

Can we see some of these animations?

[oDDity]

I've only done a few yet, I didn't want to do more until I was certain of the workflow to Doom. I'm not sure how to show them to you inside doom. Can you record moives in doom or something?

Using a screen capture program just gives you a stuttering mess.

 

I put one on the FTP, I made an Animations folder, I can split it up into smaller animations, the looking from side to side after hearing a noise etc.

It's quicktime format - anyone with sense should have the free QT alternative codec.

If we don't need a character now, or no one's for writing an AI script there's not much point in doing more animations at this point.

[sparhawk]

Nothing fancy for now. Just a script that will have him stand playing his idles, run and attack an enemy if he see one (not sure about if he hears one - is that harder to code?) search around a bit after the fight, and then go back to his place.

I'm not sure what you really need there for the moment. It's not as if you can just write this stuff in a matter of a few minutes, and currently we are busy.

Maybe this would be a good task for the new guy, but I don't know if he is up to it. If all you need is some scripting he might perform better. I guess learnig C++ will take him longer.

[Corth]

We wont need to do death animations unless its for a cutscene, or a scripted death sequence (like you want something to die a certain way). Doom takes the force of the killing blow and applies it to the ragdoll. So we'll just need to setup the ragdoll really good

[New Horizon]

We may want to have death animations for some additional theatrics. The original games did a really good job of this. I think we should consider setting up the fall with a death animation before the ragdoll takes over. Guard swaggers drops to his knees and then plop.

[oDDity]

Yew, the ragdoll deaths in TDS were beyond pathetic. I'd much rather some good animated ones, even if they don;'t fall a different way every time they die.

I suppose you could get the AF to take over at any frame in the death animation